Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Aramaic Primacy Forum (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted (/showthread.php?tid=2788) Pages:
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Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - bar Sinko - 02-16-2012 Quote:Look at the Greek New Testament. Heavily corrupted. This was not mistakes Shlama IPOstapyuk, You say that the Greek New Testament was willfully corrupted, as I quote above. Nearly all of the differences I've seen between the Peshitta and the GNT seem to be simple mistakes. What examples do you have (or anyone else has) of examples of changes that seem more likely to be willful changes to the text? I'm interested in plausible reasons that someone would desire to make each change. bar Sinko Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Paul Younan - 02-16-2012 bar Sinko Wrote:Quote:Look at the Greek New Testament. Heavily corrupted. This was not mistakes Shlama Akhan bar-Sinko, I think most are not willful, of course, just simple scribal errors. Others, though ... Please see this for a (somewhat) humorous example: http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=705 +Shamasha Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - LawrenceRaymond - 11-12-2012 Shlama to all, As ar as corruption is concerned, we get a double-dose of trouble in Colossians 3:11. Not only does "Greek" get substituted for "Aramaean" but "Scythian" is substituted for "Greek" !!!!! <!-- s:rockedover: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/rockdover.gif" alt=":rockedover:" title="Rocked Over" /><!-- s:rockedover: --> I'll give Victor Alexander's translation and comments...... 11. It does not matter whether Jew or Aramaean,* circumcised or uncircumcised, Greek or barbarian,* a slave or the son of the free; except for all and for every human being, He is the Christ. *3:11.1 "Jew or Aramaean" is correct, not "Jew or Greek" as is in Western translations. Jews and Aramaeans were culturally similar. They shared the same language for one thing. Customs were the same, etc. *3:11.2 In this passage occurs a great distortion in Western translations. The name "Scythian" is substituted for "Greek." "Scythians" is a total fabrication. There was no reference to Scythians in the context of early Christianity anywhere in Scriptures or in the lands where Christianity was preached. "Greeks and barbarians" is correct, referring to the fact that both groups came from polytheism and paganism. Shlama w'Burkate, Bro. Larry Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - g_a_kowalski - 02-26-2013 LawrenceRaymond Wrote:There was no reference to Scythians in the context of early Christianity anywhere in Scriptures or in the lands where Christianity was preached.Scythians are referenced in 2 Maccabees 4:47. Roman Catholic Church classifies this book as canonical, while other churches classify it as apocryphal. Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - distazo - 02-28-2013 I found this text, from an Asian website (slow!) so I quote it here Quote:The Sakas were a population of Iranian nomadic tribesmen residing in and migrating over the plains of Eurasia from Eastern Europe to Xinjiang Province, China, from the Old Persian Period to the Middle Persian Period when they were displaced by or integrated with Turkic language speakers during the Turkic migration. In the Achaemenid Empire much of their range was made a satrapy, Saka, named after them. They also resided in other provinces of ancient Iran. Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - enarxe - 07-05-2013 How about Markus 7:19 as an example of a a willful, interpretational addition "Thus he declared all foods clean" ? One has to remember that there is not one GNT, but there are multitudes of Greek variants. A "Greek mess", rather than Greek MSSs, so to speak. Jerzy Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Thirdwoe - 07-06-2013 Shlama, Jerzy. That example is not found in any Greek Manuscript, but is only a modern English interpretational type of translation, where they attempt to help get the meaning they thought the Greek text was saying. I believe they got it very wrong. The Greek texts line up with what is found in the Peshitta text here. .. Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - enarxe - 07-07-2013 Surprise.. I admit I have not done my homework with this one, assuming that they would at least get an idea from some Greek manuscript, if the product is called a "translation" and not "message" ... how can one treat the text that way? I have checked English translations and practically all "modern" have added this part, but most older have got it correct .. KJ21 (21st Century Kings James), DARBY, KJV, and the old ones (e.g. Geneva Bible) are good, ASV and its revisions RSV, ESV are "bad" ... so not so "essentially literal", just wondering where did that twist creep in. With peace and blessings, Jerzy Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Thirdwoe - 07-08-2013 My guess is it started with "The English Revised Version" of 1885. And most of the modern versions, which borrow from it's translation here and there, stuck with it's interpretive reading. . Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - carlosmendoza - 07-11-2013 What do you think about the problem in Mark 2:26? If the Greek is a corruption of the Aramaic, why did the Peshitta have the same error as the Greek? "how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?? Matthew 2:26 NKJV The Peshitta have the same mistake. Abiathar was not the high priest, it was Ahimelech. The passage is in 1 Sam 21.1-7 confirm this mistake: So David said to Ahimelech the priest, ?The king has ordered me on some business, and said to me, ?Do not let anyone know anything about the business on which I send you, or what I have commanded you.? And I have directed my young men to such and such a place. 3 Now therefore, what have you on hand? Give me five loaves of bread in my hand, or whatever can be found.? 1 Samuel 21:2-3 So if the Aramaic was the original, why did the Peshitta had this terrible mistake too? Do someone had an explanation to this? Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Burning one - 07-11-2013 carlosmendoza Wrote:What do you think about the problem in Mark 2:26? If the Greek is a corruption of the Aramaic, why did the Peshitta have the same error as the Greek? Shlama Carlos, there is an explanation to this; don't be worried, as it is not a contradiction, as Bible critics like to often point out that it is. i'm pasting this from another site, as he explains it well in as few words as possible: Quote:Aaron had four sons: two died an early death with no survivors, and the other two sons survived:-- Eleazar and Ithamar. Thus the Levites who served as priests at the time of David are all descended from one of these two priestly lines. all this is kept in line even with the wording of Scripture, which in Samuel, calls Ahimelek "the priest," NOT "the high priest." the NT, specifically the words of Messiah, calls Abiathar "the high priest," and rightly so! isn't that awesome! Scripture is specific when it comes to the terms it uses, and this little "debacle" can be upheld as valid and non-contradictory even in this subtle usage of the qualifier "high." hope that helps! Chayim b'Moshiach, Jeremy Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - distazo - 07-11-2013 carlosmendoza Wrote:What do you think about the problem in Mark 2:26? If the Greek is a corruption of the Aramaic, why did the Peshitta have the same error as the Greek? The Peshitta is a (small) corruption of the Original Aramaic (this might offend some here, but I am a proponent of the fact that the Peshitta is very clean), and the Greek is a corruption of the Original Aramaic. like in evolution it is called 'common ancestor'. So, if some Aramaic misreading ocurred, it could happen into the (a)Syrian reading as well. Big chance it happens like that. (like for instance 'justfied by children or deeds?) But as the Jeremy explained, not every contradiction is really a contradiction. Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Thirdwoe - 07-11-2013 Distazo, can you please show some of the small corruptions that you have found in the Peshitta? like maybe 10 of them...I'd like to look them over. Which verse says "justifed by children"? Shlama, Chuck Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - distazo - 07-11-2013 Thirdwoe Wrote:Distazo, can you please show some of the small corruptions that you have found in the Peshitta? like maybe 10 of them...I'd like to look them over. Which verse says "justifed by children"? Hi Chuck, <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76">viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76</a><!-- l --> Re: Is the Greek New Testament willfully corrupted - Thirdwoe - 07-12-2013 Thanks for the link, I'll look it over...but I was wondering if you had found any corrupted parts in The Peshitta (Eastern Text), we have today. You said: "The Peshitta is a (small) corruption of the Original Aramaic..." What parts do you see as being corrupted? . |