Importance of primacy - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Aramaic Primacy Forum (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: Importance of primacy (/showthread.php?tid=2766) Pages:
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Re: Importance of primacy - Arkady - 02-17-2012 Now tell me can Christian Church be wrong? It's certain people (like Pope) who do and did err oftimes but not the Church, never: 16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matt 28) 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14) 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (Ephes 5) (Now all of sudden Christ has mistaken? God forbid.) 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (2nd To Timothy 3) Re: Importance of primacy - Stephen Silver - 02-17-2012 Shlama All: The subject has gone "off topic". Rather than offend anyone, especially Ivan and Arkady, I would rather that we leave this topic alone for now. Let's get back to "The Importance of Primacy". Inner feelings are obviously very strong in this area and I think a cooling off time is prudent. Again, let's agree to disagree and get back to the discussion of the importance of Aramaic Primacy. Is that O.K. with everyone? Love in our gracious Mashikha, Stephen Re: Importance of primacy - Arkady - 02-17-2012 Stephen Silver Wrote:Is that O.K. with everyone?Yes. I agree with you, Stephen, 200%. Re: Importance of primacy - Arkady - 02-17-2012 I am sorry if my behaviour seemed rude to any one of you. I apologize. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="" title="Huh" /><!-- s --> Re: Importance of primacy - Stephen Silver - 02-17-2012 Arkady Wrote:I am sorry if my behaviour seemed rude to any one of you. I apologize. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="" title="Huh" /><!-- s --> Shlama All: I also follow Arkady's humble lead and repent from my heart for taking things too personally. "It's me O LORD standing in the need of prayer" <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/blush.gif" alt="" title="Blush" /><!-- s --> Shlama All, Stephen Re: Importance of primacy - Paul Younan - 02-17-2012 Whoa. Thanks everyone for settling your disagreements amicably. This was getting very uncomfortable to say the least. We should have love for one another as that is the greatest commandment. Old quarrels about ethnicity and religion should not be a hindrance to anyone here because we want to welcome everyone Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Pagan. +Shamasha Re: Importance of primacy - IPOstapyuk - 02-17-2012 Stephen, I do not know how to delete but I left just one dot. On one side thank you for your warm words. On the other side let us be fair for God is not hypocritical. If you not allow to mention about Jewish crimes against Christianity then it is not fair to allow to mention about Turks and Kurds with their crimes about Assyrian Christianity. Re: Importance of primacy - Stephen Silver - 02-17-2012 Shlama Akhi Ivan: Please follow Paul's lead and refrain from slandering the Jews. What is recorded historically shall stand with written records and eye-witness evidence. These things are permissible to talk about in another topic. This topic however, is the Importance of Primacy. Please stick to it. Shlama, Stephen Re: Importance of primacy - Paul Younan - 02-17-2012 IPOstapyuk Wrote:Stephen, You're right - I took out the mention of the ethnicity and religion of the perpetrators, and just mentioned the slaughter. Post edited. Keep me honest on the rules as well, Stephen you can edit my posts and moderate me too...as can I you! +Shamasha Re: Importance of primacy - Stephen Silver - 02-18-2012 Paul Younan Wrote:IPOstapyuk Wrote:Stephen, Shlama Shamasha Paul: Understood and well said. Shlama, Stephen Silver Forum Moderator Re: Importance of primacy - Arkady - 02-23-2012 Going through the writings of the church fathers I stumbled across these: Letters of St. Jerome > Letter 27 <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001027.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001027.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:I am not, I repeat, so ignorant as to suppose that any of the Lord's words is either in need of correction or is not divinely inspired; but the Latin manuscripts of the Scriptures are proved to be faulty by the variations which all of them exhibit, and my object has been to restore them to the form of the Greek original, from which my detractors do not deny that they have been translated. Letters of St. Jerome > Letter 71 <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ww.newadvent.org/fathers/3001071.htm">http://ww.newadvent.org/fathers/3001071.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:5. As for my poor works which from no merits of theirs but simply from your own kindness you say that you desire to have; I have given them to your servants to transcribe, I have seen the paper-copies made by them, and I have repeatedly ordered them to correct them by a diligent comparison with the originals. For so many are the pilgrims passing to and fro that I have been unable to read so many volumes. They have found me also troubled by a long illness from which this Lent I am slowly recovering as they are leaving me. If then you find errors or omissions which interfere with the sense, these you must impute not to me but to your own servants; they are due to the ignorance or carelessness of the copyists, who write down not what they find but what they take to be the meaning, and do but expose their own mistakes when they try to correct those of others. It is a false rumour which has reached you to the effect that I have translated the books of Josephus and the volumes of the holy men Papias and Polycarp. I have neither the leisure nor the ability to preserve the charm of these masterpieces in another tongue. Of Origen and Didymus I have translated a few things, to set before my countrymen some specimens of Greek teaching. The canon of the Hebrew verity ? except the octoteuch which I have at present in hand? I have placed at the disposal of your slaves and copyists. Doubtless you already possess the version from the septuagint which many years ago I diligently revised for the use of students. The new testament I have restored to the authoritative form of the Greek original. For as the true text of the old testament can only be tested by a reference to the Hebrew, so the true text of the new requires for its decision an appeal to the Greek. Letters of St. Augustine > Letter 71 From Augustine to Jerome (A.D. 403) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102071.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102071.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:6. At the same time, we are in no small measure thankful to God for the work in which you have translated the Gospels from the original Greek, because in almost every passage we have found nothing to object to, when we compared it with the Greek Scriptures. By this work, any disputant who supports an old false translation is either convinced or confuted with the utmost ease by the production and collation of manuscripts. And if, as indeed very rarely happens, something be found to which exception may be taken, who would be so unreasonable as not to excuse it readily in a work so useful that it cannot be too highly praised? I wish you would have the kindness to open up to me what you think to be the reason of the frequent discrepancies between the text supported by the Hebrew codices and the Greek Septuagint version. For the latter has no mean authority, seeing that it has obtained so wide circulation, and was the one which the apostles used, as is not only proved by looking to the text itself, but has also been, as I remember, affirmed by yourself. You would therefore confer upon us a much greater boon if you gave an exact Latin translation of the Greek Septuagint version: for the variations found in the different codices of the Latin text are intolerably numerous; and it is so justly open to suspicion as possibly different from what is to be found in the Greek, that one has no confidence in either quoting it or proving anything by its help. The Harmony of the Gospels (Augustine) > Book I, Chapter 2 <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1602102.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1602102.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:4. Of these four, it is true, only Matthew is reckoned to have written in the Hebrew language; the others in Greek. And however they may appear to have kept each of them a certain order of narration proper to himself, this certainly is not to be taken as if each individual writer chose to write in ignorance of what his predecessor had done, or left out as matters about which there was no information things which another nevertheless is discovered to have recorded. But the fact is, that just as they received each of them the gift of inspiration, they abstained from adding to their several labours any superfluous conjoint compositions. For Matthew is understood to have taken it in hand to construct the record of the incarnation of the Lord according to the royal lineage, and to give an account of most part of His deeds and words as they stood in relation to this present life of men. Mark follows him closely, and looks like his attendant and epitomizer. For in his narrative he gives nothing in concert with John apart from the others: by himself separately, he has little to record; in conjunction with Luke, as distinguished from the rest, he has still less; but in concord with Matthew, he has a very large number of passages. Much, too, he narrates in words almost numerically and identically the same as those used by Matthew, where the agreement is either with that evangelist alone, or with him in connection with the rest. On the other hand, Luke appears to have occupied himself rather with the priestly lineage and character of the Lord. For although in his own way he carries the descent back to David, what he has followed is not the royal pedigree, but the line of those who were not kings. That genealogy, too, he has brought to a point in Nathan the son of David, which person likewise was no king. It is not thus, however, with Matthew. For in tracing the lineage along through Solomon the king, he has pursued with strict regularity the succession of the other kings; and in enumerating these, he has also conserved that mystical number of which we shall speak hereafter. Church History (Eusebius) > Book VI <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250106.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250106.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:1. To sum up briefly, he has given in the Hypotyposes abridged accounts of all canonical Scripture, not omitting the disputed books, ? I refer to Jude and the other Catholic epistles, and Barnabas and the so-called Apocalypse of Peter. Church History (Eusebius) > Book V <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250105.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250105.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:1. Since, in the beginning of this work, we promised to give, when needful, the words of the ancient presbyters and writers of the Church, in which they have declared those traditions which came down to them concerning the canonical books, and since Iren?us was one of them, we will now give his words and, first, what he says of the sacred Gospels: Homilies on First Corinthians (Chrysostom) > Homily 44 <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220144.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220144.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:1 Corinthians 16:22 De Viris Illustribus (Jerome) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2708.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2708.htm</a><!-- m --> Quote:Chapter 3 Of course, by saying 'hebrew' he really meant 'aramaic'. Re: Importance of primacy - IPOstapyuk - 04-08-2012 an interesting story. about 2 months ago a son borrowed money from father and then said: forgive me my debt. In Our Father prayer: In Russian version it says: "...and forgive us our debts just like we forgive our debtors...". In Ukrainian version it says :"..and forgive our guilty acts just like we forgive those who are guilty before us ...". From my point of view the second corresponds to the Aramaic original. Based on each separate translations two separate theologies can be developed. I heard that Muslims build their faith only on Arabic version of Koran. And they are right in their linguistic approach. Its a good example for us that we must follow only Aramaic original of the 22 books Peshitta as the only original and foundation of our faith into the Gospel of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Re: Importance of primacy - distazo - 04-08-2012 Privet tavarish, brat <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> I do not quite agree with the ukrainian version. Matthew 6:12 uses a word, habayn means 'debts' as in Colossians 2:14 it exactly means that. A debt which needs to be paid back. The debt has however, been waived. As I understand it, it is not about 'guilty acts' nor about sins, but our debt or duties which leads into slavery of death. But I fully agree that it would be best to understand the source text, just as arabic was for moslems. But... The gospel goes through our heart and is written on it, without language, if you know what I mean. Pust Bog blagaslavit tebja. Re: Importance of primacy - IPOstapyuk - 04-09-2012 distazo wrote Quote:The gospel goes through our heart and is written on it, without language, if you know what I mean.I know what you mean and it is right. We are letter of Christ being read by all men. Currently I just study Aramaic and am on the way of improvement thanks to dukhrana.com Maybe 'hayav" has some more meanings and in this case I meant that when Jesus was caught, the Jews were trying to "ithhayav" him which in the context sounds to make Him guilty. By the way concerning Col. 2:14 Murdock and Etheridge uses 'debts" whereas Lamsa uses 'sins', Vulgate uses 'decrees' and Greek uses 'dogmas'. |