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Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-04-2011

Hi all

I'm new here, and I have some questions. I hope someone could help me with them:
1-What is the difference between Aramaic, Hebrew and Syriac languages? How close are they from each other?
2-What is the Syriac Peshitta?
3-I heard about a Khabouris codex. How old is this, and do we have its full version?
4-What is the oldest codex we have for the Peshitta?
5-I could find Aramaic Targums here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/get_a_chapter?file=51001&sub=02&cset=H">http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/get_a_chapter?fi ... =02&cset=H</a><!-- m -->
So why are the letters different from the ones on this site?
6-I am learning Hebrew, so is it easy to learn Aramaic given the knowledge of Hebrew language?
7-Which parts of the New Testament do you believe were originally written in Aramaic?

Sorry for the long questions and please forgive my ignorance.
Thanks


Re: Some questions - distazo - 09-04-2011

Hi Jerry,

Welcome.

Jerry20 Wrote:Hi all

1-What is the difference between Aramaic, Hebrew and Syriac languages? How close are they from each other?

They all are semitic.
Just as e.g. Germanic (or a better example, indo european) languages have things in common, so do all semitic languages have things in common.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac</a><!-- m -->

Syriac is an Aramaic dialect which evolved out of ancient Aramaic. (See wikipedia)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic</a><!-- m -->

Jerry20 Wrote:Hi all
2-What is the Syriac Peshitta?

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta</a><!-- m -->

Jerry20 Wrote:3-I heard about a Khabouris codex. How old is this, and do we have its full version?

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabouris">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabouris</a><!-- m -->
Jerry20 Wrote:4-What is the oldest codex we have for the Peshitta?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta</a><!-- m -->

Jerry20 Wrote:5-I could find Aramaic Targums here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/get_a_chapter?file=51001&sub=02&cset=H">http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/get_a_chapter?fi ... =02&cset=H</a><!-- m -->
So why are the letters different from the ones on this site?

You can write 'aramaic' in any alphabet. There is preference and techical reasons to use certain fonts. Using the square hebrew (Aramaic) alphabet (as you learn currently) is currently even better.

Jerry20 Wrote:6-I am learning Hebrew, so is it easy to learn Aramaic given the knowledge of Hebrew language?

I know some european languages, and this question 'how easy is it to learn x' really is a personal matter.

Jerry20 Wrote:7-Which parts of the New Testament do you believe were originally written in Aramaic?

This is just my 2 cents, but I believe that all but 2 and 3 john were written in Aramaic.
They were written by John the Elder, an Ephesian Greek Christian. (confused by john the apostle) which might be a reason that 2 & 3 john are not in the eastern NT.


Re: Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-04-2011

Thanks for your reply
Would you please make this points clear:
1-How close is Hebrew and Aramaic?
2-Is Syriac Peshitta same as Aramaic Peshitta? Or these are different versions?


Re: Some questions - distazo - 09-05-2011

1.
Which Hebrew dialect and which aramaic from which time will you compare, because 'Aramaic' is not just one language.
Ok, i'll give it a try. It is just as close as any Germanic language in Europe (e.g. dutch, German, Danmark etc). Does that help you? No probably not because you don't speak those languages <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

2.
It's in the first paragraph.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac</a><!-- m -->


ps: Are you the same person who had a user name like 5adzkfaj and without any introduction posted a PM to me with the same questions? I did not answer because it very much looked like a robot created account.


Re: Some questions - tFighterPilot - 09-05-2011

Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic have quite a few common roots, but other than that they are different. Late Hebrew (early centuries AD) has adopted many Aramaic and Greek words, so they became a bit more similar. Modern Hebrew is somewhat of a mix between ancient and later Hebrew. As a native Hebrew speaker, I can sometimes understand written Aramaic text. I can barely understand spoken Aramaic though, for the same reason that Spanish speakers can't understand spoken Portuguese. In fact, certain dialects of Aramaic are so different from others that, for example, Kurdish Jews couldn't communicate with Assyrians Christians even though both spoke Aramaic.


Re: Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-05-2011

distazo Wrote:1.
Which Hebrew dialect and which aramaic from which time will you compare, because 'Aramaic' is not just one language.
Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic of the Peshitta.

Quote:2.
It's in the first paragraph.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac</a><!-- m -->
So there are 2 peshitas?

Quote:ps: Are you the same person who had a user name like 5adzkfaj and without any introduction posted a PM to me with the same questions? I did not answer because it very much looked like a robot created account.
No


Re: Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-05-2011

tFighterPilot Wrote:Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic have quite a few common roots, but other than that they are different. Late Hebrew (early centuries AD) has adopted many Aramaic and Greek words, so they became a bit more similar. Modern Hebrew is somewhat of a mix between ancient and later Hebrew. As a native Hebrew speaker, I can sometimes understand written Aramaic text. I can barely understand spoken Aramaic though, for the same reason that Spanish speakers can't understand spoken Portuguese. In fact, certain dialects of Aramaic are so different from others that, for example, Kurdish Jews couldn't communicate with Assyrians Christians even though both spoke Aramaic.

Thanks


Re: Some questions - Andrej - 09-05-2011

Jerry20 Wrote:So there are 2 peshitas?
there is one peshitta. there also is a peshitto (western peshitta), which is actually almost the same except fo the 5 latest NT books, which are missing in the eastern peshitta (and many people just call peshitta). But when you say "aramaic peshitta" and "syraic peshitta", you are talking about the same thing.


Re: Some questions - Andrej - 09-05-2011

Jerry20 Wrote:Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic of the Peshitta.
probably as different as spanish from english, but dunno if that is really accurate or if it helps you.


Re: Some questions - Thirdwoe - 09-05-2011

I have understood that the Western Peshitto textual family is a later partial transltaion from the Greek text, incorporating readings from the Greek texts considered by its editors to be Apostolic and original...and it includes the "western five" books as well, which were not given to the Church of the East in Aramaic form. The Western Peshitto is thus a hybrid Aramaic/Greek text, with the added five books of the Greek NT Cannon translated into the Aramaic language.

I believe that the Eastern Peshitta Aramaic NT is the Original NT text, as given by the hand of the Aramaic speaking Hebrew Apostles, to the Aramaic speaking peoples of the eastern Mesopotamia lands...and not a translation of a Greek language text, which were given by the Apostle's and their companions to the Greek speaking peoples.

Blessings.


Re: Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-05-2011

Thanks guys for your help.
I hope if you allow me to ask some other questions:

1-I read on this site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/initial/peshitta.html">http://www.peshitta.org/initial/peshitta.html</a><!-- m -->
"that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original"
Do you have a proof for that?

2-What is the most accurate English translation to the Peshitta?

Thanks


Re: Some questions - Andrej - 09-06-2011

Jerry20 Wrote:Thanks guys for your help.
I hope if you allow me to ask some other questions:

1-I read on this site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/initial/peshitta.html">http://www.peshitta.org/initial/peshitta.html</a><!-- m -->
"that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original"
Do you have a proof for that?

2-What is the most accurate English translation to the Peshitta?

Thanks

1 - there is no actual historical proof. it is a traditional teaching. but it makes some sense.

2 - opinions differ. http://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/index.php can give you free ones. i hear AENT is good (?).


Re: Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-06-2011

Thanks.
How about this translation:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaic-plain-english.scripturetext.com/john/1.htm">http://aramaic-plain-english.scripturet ... john/1.htm</a><!-- m -->
John 1:1
1In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

Is this accurate translation, for this verse?


Re: Some questions - distazo - 09-06-2011

The best and most honest translation is one of both. Murdock or Etheridge.


Re: Some questions - Jerry20 - 09-06-2011

1-Thanks, but would you please tell me if this is accurate:
John 1:1
In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

2-Any information about the Lamsa Bible translation?