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Satan - ograabe - 05-03-2010
Axccording to a Berkeley professor, the concept of satan and the name "satan" are Christian in origin and do not exsit in the Hebrew scriptures or in traditional Judism.
Comments, please.
Otto
Re: Satan - Aaron S - 05-03-2010
Very well put... HaSatan is not a name but a word that I believe is best represented by the English 'the Adversary'
Christianity explicitly expounds on a concrete conceptualization of HaSatan much moreso than the TaNaKh...
It can be said that that they're derived from sod's [of PaRDeS] of the TaNaKh as well as from Hellenistic influences of the conception of Hades and possibly as well as building upon Paul's interpretation of the TaNaKh. (I didn't actually do any research here, but this is what I've heard and what I'd guess)
Shalom w'Chayim, Aaron
Re: Satan - sean - 05-03-2010
What about the book of job, what time was that from?
Re: Satan - Dawid - 05-05-2010
Job is one of the oldest books of the TN"K. It is theorized that it is transjordanian, since its Hebrew differs from the rest of the TN"K. Jewish tradition interprets this "adversary" as an angel who is a sort of prosecuting attorney for God against mankind. For others, this is merely metaphorical.
Overall, I agree with Aaron, but do not necessarily believe in PaRDeS.
Re: Satan - sean - 05-05-2010
I do believe in fallen angels, that why I mentioned the book of job, the oldest book in the bible. Also now coming to think about it Jesus also mentions that people can be afflicted by demons, and Jesus delivered people from demons.
Re: Satan - sean - 05-05-2010
Jesus spoke about satan in the gospels, so I believe in the words that Jesus saids. Of course I also believe in the rest of the bible.
Re: Satan - Aaron S - 05-05-2010
sean Wrote:Jesus spoke about satan in the gospels, so I believe in the words that Jesus saids. Of course I also believe in the rest of the bible.
It's probable also that much of what is reflected in the testimonies of Yeshua regarding Satana comes from Rabbinical discussions of the day. Want to show a few verses to which you're referring though? Keep in mind that there's no claim that an adversarial figure did not exist before but that much came from latter interpolations and so on and so forth... red horns, tail, and scepter.
Re: Satan - sean - 05-05-2010
Hi, lucifer fell before men were created and then the serpent tempted eve in the garden.
Exmaples from the gospels
Starting at luke 13-11-And behold there was a woman having a spirit of infirmity eighteen years and was bent together and was not able to be completely erect. And see her , Jesus called her near and said to her , women you have been loosed from your infirmity. And He laid his hands on her. And instantly she was made erect and glorified God. But answering, being angry that Jesus healed on the sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the crowd, There are six days in which it is right to work. Then coming in these, be healed and not on the sabbath day. Then the Lord answered him and said, Hypocrites Each one of you on the sabbath, does he not loose his ox or ass from the manger and leading it away give it drink. And this one being a daughter of Abraham whom satan bound, lo, eighteen years, was it not right to loose from this bond on the sabbath day ?
mathew 4-10-Jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan
mark 1-13-And He was there in the deserted place forty days, being tempted by satan, and was with the wild beasts
Luke 22-3 Then satan entered into Judas
Re: Satan - sean - 05-05-2010
Revelation 9-12- And the great dragon was cast out , the old serpent being called the devil and satan.
Before he, satan, sinned he was attractive, it was sin that made him ugly. Just like the glory of God left adam and eve after they sinned.
Re: Satan - Dawid - 05-05-2010
Sean, in context, Lucifer refers to the king of Babylon.
Re: Satan - Mshikhaya - 05-05-2010
Here is what Dr. Christoph Luxenberg has to say about the origins of the word, "satan". Begin reading at page 100:
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Re: Satan - sean - 05-06-2010
Hi David, I assume you,re talking about the book of job. Clearly Jesus is not talking about the king of babylon.
Re: Satan - sean - 05-06-2010
Hi, in Isaiah 14-12, according to lamsa, it is the king of babylon. Never the less, I still believe according to the scriptures that lucifer was an angel that fell. I'll go by the word of God, and it does not really worry me, what highly educated people believe. Many don't believe in hell or the devil, some don't believe in heaven, or God. I put my faith in God and his word, rather than any man,especially those that go against God and his word. Jesus said heaven and earth would pass away, but his words will never pass away.
Re: Satan - Dawid - 05-07-2010
sean Wrote:Hi, in Isaiah 14-12, according to lamsa, it is the king of babylon. Never the less, I still believe according to the scriptures that lucifer was an angel that fell. I'll go by the word of God, and it does not really worry me, what highly educated people believe. Many don't believe in hell or the devil, some don't believe in heaven, or God. I put my faith in God and his word, rather than any man,especially those that go against God and his word. Jesus said heaven and earth would pass away, but his words will never pass away.But didn't you yourself just point out that in Isaiah Lucifer is referring to the king of Babylon? Isaiah 14:4 says as much. So saying that the "Son of the morning" (Lucifer) is a fallen angel isn't really in keeping with What the word of God says in Isaiah.
Re: Satan - Aaron S - 05-07-2010
Rafa Wrote:Satan is the King of Babylon. Read Revelation.
I hope you understand why this statement doesn't further the discussion at all...