Peshitta Forum
Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - Printable Version

+- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for)
+-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Aramaic Primacy Forum (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? (/showthread.php?tid=2183)



Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - frjdalton - 11-07-2009

Hi all,

looking over the site again I see there's quite a few areas of research, like Paul's work on Peshitta verses in Aphrahat and St Ephrem etc etc.

Is there any sense of a coordinated approach here to Aramaic primacy research?
Is there a list of who is doing what? especially at the masters or Phd level which may be useful to take this knowledge further in the public arena?

If we are going to change minds then ISTM that some kind of coordination or discussion is needed so research can be focussed and maximally likely to change minds. I'm considering what to do for my Phd after I complete my masters soon, and am seriously considering eg more work on Aphrahat. But is anyone else doing that *comprehensively?* Paul?

I know most people don't have the luxury of a few years spare, but I'm very happy for advice on direction, so I can best use my years (I'm 49). And even "hobbyists" can out-strip so-called "scholars" as evidenced very well on this site (eg the debunking of trimm's silliness etc). ie. We can all do our bit so every bit counts.

I searched a lot but could not see anything on this topic. I think we can be better communicating the research areas and achieve more :-) Otherwise the forum will continue to be seen by some outside Greek-primacy critics as fringe and "unacademic". Don't we all dream of one day "showing them" ;-) may that day come.

in Christ,
Fr. John D'Alton


Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - Stephen Silver - 11-08-2009

Shlama Father John:
Here at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m --> as well as at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m --> we invite and encourage scholars to use the resources available to complete their BA's, MA's, and especially their PhD's in the various areas of Peshitta New Testament Primacy.
Greek Primacists have assumed Apostolic posterity of the Greek New Testament, without understanding the greater scope of research which includes...

1) the historical legitimacy of the Eastern Peshitta New Testament, as the established Apostolic foundation for Eastern as well as Western Christian Doctrine
2) the transmission of the New Testament Peshitta text and continual custodianship of the Peshitta New Testament from Apostolic times
3) the divine affinity of the 22 book Peshitta New Testament in juxtaposition with the Hebrew TaNaK
4) the historical development of the three primary textual styles of the Peshitta New Testament (Estrangelo, East Adiabene and Serto)

We "lay types" have undertaken to supply the materials to eager scholars who have at their disposal the resources to complete the fulfillments of a Doctorate in Philosophy. Each one of the above categories among others, spawns several sub-categories, each of which is worthy of a PhD and when published will be put to good use in the scholarly debate supporting Aramaic Peshitta New Testament Primacy. Moreover the Apostolic Catholic Christian Church both east and west will benefit from the research. It is my hope, Father D'Alton that you, and others like you, will pursue and fulfill your passion in any of these areas which will bring clarity to all areas of historical and linguistic research of the Eastern Peshitta New Testament.

Shlama,
Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->

Quote:Is there any sense of a coordinated approach here to Aramaic primacy research?
Is there a list of who is doing what? especially at the masters or Phd level which may be useful to take this knowledge further in the public arena?

If we are going to change minds then ISTM that some kind of coordination or discussion is needed so research can be focussed and maximally likely to change minds. I'm considering what to do for my Phd after I complete my masters soon, and am seriously considering eg more work on Aphrahat. But is anyone else doing that *comprehensively?* Paul?



Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - judge - 11-09-2009

If peshitta primacy is correct, then we are probably on the precipice of some kind of renaissance in not only NT studies but all related areas. Virtually no idea about the NT or the life of Jesus will be left untouched (or perhaps not overturned).
As an example (and this example could be multiplied many many times), I bought one of Bart Ehrmans <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman</a><!-- m --> books. I bought it at the local bookstore here in Australia.
This kind of work represents not merely what religious people might be thinking about Jesus and early christians, but what the average man in the street thinks about these issues.

Virtually everything he writes about will have to be re-examined and changed in the light of peshitta primacy.
The implications are BIG.


Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - ograabe - 11-09-2009

The idea that the Jewish followers of Jesus wrote their sacred memoirs and letters in Greek is so ludicrous, it is difficult to believe that any intelligent persons would hold to that notion.

Otto


Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - judge - 11-10-2009

ograabe Wrote:The idea that the Jewish followers of Jesus wrote their sacred memoirs and letters in Greek is so ludicrous, it is difficult to believe that any intelligent persons would hold to that notion.

Otto

Many, today, scholars included, don't think that the NT was written by followers of Jesus or jewish people. After all these documents were written in greek, weren't they?
As the NT books are pretty much our best look into the life and teaching of Jesus, from an evidential perspective,by having them penned in greek we get a totally different skew on just about everything.


Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - judge - 11-11-2009

judge Wrote:Many, today, scholars included, don't think that the NT was written by followers of Jesus or jewish people. After all these documents were written in greek, weren't they?
.

As another example here is recently publshed (or soon to be published book) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Jesus-Five-Views/dp/0830838686/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257900185&sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Jesus- ... 185&sr=8-1</a><!-- m -->
The first author argues that Jesus probably did not even exist. It is very difficult to ably refute some of this because the primary documents (i.e. the GNT) are full of editing and contradictions which seem to place them away from the time and place. Additionally they seem to make some basic historical errors that should not have been made by those close to the action. It may be that only by looking to the peshitta can these issues be satisfactorily resolved. e.g. <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1510">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1510</a><!-- l -->


Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - frjdalton - 11-12-2009

Hi all,
yes Ehrman's book etc is somewhat depressing reading, but I see more and more scholars questioning the liberalism and the Greek primacy idea. As judge wrote: "some kind of renaissance in not only NT studies but all related areas" is what we may well see.

Origen and Peshitta?

Ok, another possible research angle- is anyone looking at this? Origen, despite his heretical ideas at points, wrote some greta stuff and was a serious Biblical scholar. His writings note the many "corruptions" in the gospels (ie the variations in the Greek texts). Has anyone researched what his comments and notes on these variations means with respect to the Peshitta? ie, if some of his notes match the Peshitta then this is very early pre-3rd century.
Anyone?

For example. Some Greek versions read "Jesus Barabbas" in Mt 27:16,17--a reading which Origen found "in very ancient manuscripts." (probably Greek variants). But does he say the same about anything which is NOT in Greek manuscripts which IS in the Peshitta?
This would be good evidence. I found nothing on a quick google search.

in Christ,
Fr. John D'Alton


Re: Coordinated Aramaic primacy research directions? - AramaicScholar - 12-23-2009

It is sad and depressing to see the Holy Scriptures being attacked because of Greek Primacy. Before Westcott & Hort came on the scene, the Aramaic Peshitta in the West was widely respected as being an ancient, reliable version of the New Testament - even although people (in the West) still believed in Greek Primacy. But due to the prevalence of Greek Primacy and the many problems and conflicts in the Greek text, the Bible itself is easy to attack. The Aramaic Peshitta repeatedly stands up to all these attacks, which are really only valid for the Greek and Latin translations.

A new site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://allthingsaramaic.com/">http://allthingsaramaic.com/</a><!-- m -->
is trying to highlight all these issues, and bring the claims of Aramaic Peshitta to a wider audience. Hopefully when people can examine the issues for themselves, the claims of Greek Primacy will be seen to be false. Comparing the Aramaic Peshitta with the numerous variants in Greek, it becomes very obvious very quickly, that the Aramaic Peshitta is the original, and the Greek/Old Syriac are copies or translations. Part of the problem is that knowledge in Aramaic is sadly lacking, and is not really taught in universities and seminaries any more, so that Bible students do not have the knowledge to defend themselves against false attacks.

My view is that Truth will always win in the end, even if it takes years.