Marya (Lord-God) - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: General (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=7) +--- Thread: Marya (Lord-God) (/showthread.php?tid=2125) |
Marya (Lord-God) - Nimrod Warda - 06-05-2009 Shlama alokhun, I wanted to see if anyone could help me find some solid scholarly research done about the title "Marya". I know it means Lord-God (Mar = Lord; Yah = short form of YHWH/God), but I am looking to see how this ties into the use of the short form of the name of God in the Old Testament. From my own experience I have never heard an Aramaic speaker refer to anyone but Jesus as Marya. I do know that the more generic term "Mar" is used quite often today for a wide array of saints, bishops, etc. and "Yah" is added to words for names in the Old Testament, but is the word Marya (or the Hebrew equivalent) ever used in the Tanakh to denote God specifically (or anyone else)? Furthermore, outside of names, is Yah (or YHWH) ever used to refer to someone other than God (or other gods)? As usual any help would be appreciated. Push b'shayna, -Nimrod Warda- Re: Marya (Lord-God) - distazo - 06-06-2009 Hi, MRY (Mar-Yah) is in the Aramaic OT targum used at all those 6800+ places, where the Hebrew OT has JHWH. Regards Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Burning one - 06-07-2009 Shlama, interestingly, it is also used in a few places where the Hebrew text reads "Adonai" / "Adoneynu." Chayim b'Moshiach, Jeremy Re: Marya (Lord-God) - distazo - 06-08-2009 Burning one Wrote:Shlama, Do you in fact mean the 137 times, where the soferium applied 'emendations' ? (Such as in Psalms 110:5) Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Burning one - 06-09-2009 Shlama akhi, i remember checking those specific passages to see if they were part of the emendations of the sopherim, and they weren't, because that was my initial thought, as well. the ones i'm aware of are out of Nehemiah and somewhere in the Psalms, if i remember correctly. sorry i don't have the specific passages on hand. i'll have to do some digging to find the ones i'm familiar with, if you're interested. if anyone else knows of any, it would be helpful! Chayim b'Moshiach, Jeremy Re: Marya (Lord-God) - distazo - 06-14-2009 Sure akhi, I would be interested in such comparison. There are evidential and strange differences. (About 'yah' which is a shortcut for jahweh) it is not used for any godhead/human being (except todays jamaica). I would eat my shoes on that <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> I also would like to know why both the greek and aramaic do have 'God' (alaha) instead of Mar-Yah in Matthew 4:4 and John 6:45. They citate the OT, but unlike the fact that the hebrew has YHWH, the Greek as well as the NT have 'God'. Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Nimrod Warda - 06-16-2009 Thank you distazo and others. I will have to check out Matthew 4:4 and John 6:45. Much appreciated, -Nimrod Warda- Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Burning one - 06-17-2009 Shlama akhan, sorry for the lateness in response. i'm swamped with school. but here's what i found after going back and looking at some of the instances of MARYA in the Peshitta A"NK. the Hebrew term is listed first, and then the Peshitta's rendering. as you will notice, Marya is not always translating the Hebrew YHWH, but sometimes Adown (Master), and sometimes Eloheem (Strong One / God). Sh???moth (Exodus) 15:2 Yah / Marya Tehillim (Psalms) 94:7 Yah / Marya 94:12 Yah / Marya 114:7 Adown / Marya 115:17-18 Yah / l???Marya 118:17 Yah / D???Marya 118:19 Yah / l???Marya 122:4 Yah / d???Marya 135:4 Yah / Marya YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 10:16 HaAdown YHWH / Marya Alaha 10:33 HaAdown YHWH / Marya Alaha 19:4 Adowneem / d???Marya 26:4 Yah YHWH / d???Marya Alaha Malaki (MalachI) 3:1 HaAdown / d???Marya NechemYah (Nehemiah) 8:10 l???Adoneynu / Marya 10:29 (30 in the Hebrew) ???b???Torot haEloheem??? / ???Namuwsa d???Marya,??? and also ???Moshe eved haEloheem??? / ???d???Muwshe abdeh d???Marya??? this is VERY interesting. there doesn't seem to have been a staunch RULE implemented or followed at the time of the Peshitta A"NK's production, since the range of translation of MARYA includes YHWH, Adown, Adowneem, Eloheem, and even YHWH to Alaha! interestingly, Adown also was translated as Alaha. i'm wondering now if there are other nuances like this elsewhere.... hope this helps. the vast majority of the time, MARYA is indeed reserved for YHWH, but the above examples show that other Aramaic terms were considered valid translations of the divine Name and titles at the time of the production of the Peshitta A"NK. Chayim b'Moshiach, Jeremy Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Nimrod Warda - 06-17-2009 Shlama alokh akhooni Jeremy, Thank you for taking the time out to look into this. It is good to know that Marya is still only reserved for God (in whatever form of the name)! This is what I was most interested in confirming. Push b'shayna, -Nimrod Warda- Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Dawid - 06-17-2009 Burning one Wrote:Shlama akhan,In the Isaiah passages where YHWH is rendered Alaha it almost seems like it's following a later convention of reading YHWH as Elohim when it follows Adonai, since YHWH is normally read "Adonai" now. But I was under the impression that this convention was more modern than the POT. Re: Marya (Lord-God) - Burning one - 06-18-2009 Shlama Dawid, i honestly don't know when YHWH began to be substituted with Adonai. sorry... Chayim b'Moshiach, Jeremy Re: Marya (Lord-God) - gbausc - 09-14-2009 Shlama Akhay, The Massoretic practice of replacing 134 YHWH readings with Adonai apparently started before AD 100. Here is part of my appendix to my 1st Century Aramaic-English Interlinear Bible-The Psalms Quote:Information from the Massorahs indicating 134 places where the Sopherim (Hebrew Scribes) altered the Divine Name ???YHWH??? The examples Jeremy gives of "Marya" translating "Adonai" really amount to 5 examples. All the others have either YAH or YHWH in the Hebrew text, whether 1st or 2nd of two Hebrew words assigned to the Deity, so it is not really fair to assign another Hebrew word to "Marya" in those places. 5 examples out of 6800 occurrences of YHWH in the Hebrew Bible is 0.07%, and we have little possibility of knowing that the Hebrew reading being translated in those cases was not YHWH, in those mss. 2000 years ago. 99.93% of the Hebrew readings behind "Marya" in the Peshitta O.T. are "YHWH". That does not really support a diversity of translations of "YHWH" into Aramaic. Blessings, Dave Bauscher |