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To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - Printable Version

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To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - distazo - 04-22-2009

You ask in your Aramaic English interlinear, 'who knows what scripture James was quoting here?'

As I understand James phrase in 4:5, it is a non-existing quote, it was a rhetorical question. "Does the Scripture say that the Spirit dwells in us, with jealousy and lusts?"

The obvious answer is, "no."

Many bible critics, quote this verse, as if James was making up something, but James did not, he made an understandable point using a rhetoric question.

(just my two cents, I'm not a scholar...)

Re: To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - judge - 04-24-2009

distazo Wrote:(just my two cents, I'm not a scholar...)
Hi Distazo, I hope you are well. I have speculated that perhaps James was not intending to quote any particualr verse but was trying to elucidate a principle found in the scriptures.

Re: To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - Sami Rabia - 02-12-2010

Is this interpretation however, true to the text?

Etheridge and Murdock both translate it the same way its rendered in the KJV.

???? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? ???????????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ????

Could it be rendered (loosely):

Or why do you vainly think the scriptures say/affirm that the Spirit would dwell among you where there is Jealousy and lust?

Could anyone with more expertise chime in?

Re: To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - Jerry - 02-12-2010

Sami, I am certainly no expert, but I did post a reply to this thread. Then I deleted it because I am still a bit unsure of this verse myself, and would have to spend more time on a couple of the word stems. It is kind of a tough verse to get a handle on.

Re: To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - Stephen Silver - 02-12-2010

Shlama Khulkon:
The textual reference from which the Apostle James may have loosly paraphrased is the often repeated statement that God is Jealous. (Exodus 20:5, 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, Joshua 24:19, Ezekiel 39:25, Joel 2:18, Nahum 1:2, Zechariah 1:14, 8:2) Paul emulates this same attitrubute/attitude/desire in 2 Corinthians 11:2. Moreover the lexeme is "tanana" which can mean jealous or zeal. Interestingly, the Apostle Shimon took the Hebrew form of this word "Kanana" as a surname. His name is in the four lists of the Apostles. It is improperly translated in the first two lists as Simon the Canaanite.(Matthew 10:8, Mark 3:18) In the second two lists the surname is "tanana'. (Luke 6:15, Acts 1:13)
In my opinion the context of the word ???????????? should be "desire" or more strongly "covet". It is God's strong desire to keep us spiritually safe from the corruption that is in the world through "lust". (James 1:14, 15) When we lust, we display our fallen nature. When God "lusts", or "covets" if you will, he manifests his attributes of love for us, for He is Holy.

Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
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Re: To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - Sami Rabia - 02-12-2010

Shlama Stephen

Yes certainly, I have no problems with this verse theologically either way its translated. I just wondered about the correct way it should be rendered from the original.


Re: To Glen D. Bauscher: James 4:5 - Jerry - 02-13-2010

aw dal:mah s:riy:qah:yith sob:riyn tuwn de:mar k:tho:bah d:bat:no:nah ro:gah ruw:chah d'om:rah ban

Or of-to-what vainly, presuming ye-are, of-saith the-writing, 'Of-in-the-envy, desiring the-spirit dwelling in-us.'

Note that the "ye-are", follows immediately the "presuming", so it is the associates of James that are doing the presuming. At least we know that much. The next question is which verb is the adverb "vainly" applying to. I am thinking that maybe the Aramaic syntax for the adverb "vainly" is applying to the verb "saith", and would be spoken in English like this, perhaps giving the verse a better understanding:

Or of-to-what presuming ye-are, of-vainly-saith the writing, 'Of-in-the-envy, desiring the-spirit dwelling in-us.'

But this is just a first stab at it, and certainly subject to critique. And it is also a bit difficult, at least for me, in applying the verse to the context within which it is. And I also have a suspicion that dal:mah could be translated as "of-not-what", which gives it the "lest" result in the lexicon, instead of "of-to-what" or "of-why". And that would upset the apple-cart yet again.

Or of-lest vainly presuming ye-are, of-saith the writing, 'Of-in-the-envy, desiring the-spirit dwelling in-us.'

In fact, I am now kind of leaning to this last version. Which would portray that James was admonishing his envious and infighting associates that maybe they were vainly misinterpreting the "of-in-the-envy" part of the verse, in becoming envious of each other. So in verse 6, he then says that it is "humility" that is favored, and not "internal envy" or the proud or lofty. So also it seems that James is paraphrasing the last half of the verse in a manner to correlate to how his associates might be thinking it to read.