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+--- Thread: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? (/showthread.php?tid=1818)
1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - enarxe - 10-02-2008
Shalom,
I originally wanted to post it in the Mistranslations section but it seems like whenever I try to approach it I'm too tired to dig deep and check everything so I thought that will check some grammar with others here.
Here we go:
1Peter 4:1 If then the Messiah hath suffered for you in the flesh, do ye also arm yourselves with the same mind: for every one that is dead in his body, hath ceased from all sins, [Murdock]
1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [KJV, and all other Greek-text based English translations]
Can you see the difference ?
The Greek word for "suffer" for the phrase in bold above is "pathon", which is II Aoristus Active Participium of "pascho" - suffer, endure. Vulgata has it as "qui passus est carne", i.e. "whose body has passed (or endured)" (my own poor translation), passus here is from "patior" (from which also English "patience" comes, I believe).
Aramaic has there "dmoet", a form of "mwt" which is "dead" or "dying". Here is my little grammar question now - how are you reading Aramaic here - is it "dead" or rather "dying"?
Note that Peshitta is simpler (!) and makes much more sense in the wider context - yes, "if you are dead you do not sin".
Thanks in advance for any help,
Jerzy
[edited one sentence to clarify what I am looking for]
Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - Paul Younan - 10-02-2008
Wow - thank you Jerzy for an example that both utilizes the Aramaic to clarify the meaning, and also gives us additional insight into Shimon Keepa's instruction to us here.
+Shamasha
Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - abudar2000 - 10-02-2008
shlom lokh oH Jerzy,
enarxe Wrote:Aramaic has there "dmoet", a form of "mwt" which is "dead" or "dying". Here is my little grammar question now - how are you reading Aramaic here - is it "dead" or rather "dying"?
Note that Peshitta is simpler (!) and makes much more sense in the wider context - yes, "if you are dead you do not sin".
[edited one sentence to clarify what I am looking for]
I would render it as "dies"
Translation => "... for every one who dies in the flesh, hath ceased from all sins."
push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - sean - 10-07-2008
Did not Paul say "I die daily". Also in peter it saids 'he that suffers ( is that the correct translation?) in the flesh , has ceased from sin".
Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - sean - 10-07-2008
Sorry, "he that dies in the flesh", I'm at the library and running out of time, my computer at home is not working at the moment.
Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - ograabe - 10-07-2008
Lamsa translation:
1 Peter 4: 1-2
"Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for you in the flesh, arm yourselves also with this very thought; he who subdues his body ceases from all sin; that he should no longer live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men but to the will of God."
Blessings,
Otto