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Spiritual "Meat Loaf" - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-18-2008

Shlama all--

I picked a very weird subject line to answer Rafa's inquiry. It's a classic rock reference, since I will try and answer for "ruach" and nefesh" but not for "neshama" right now. What does that have to do with "Meat Loaf"? Well don't be sad, 'cause two out of three ain't bad.

Let's start:

You know, this is one of the things I have the most difficulty understanding. If we are souls, and animals have souls, then what would correspond to what in the Greek mindset is that sentient "spark" which we leave when our physical bodies die?

AGR:

This is something that is hard to answer, and Jewish opinions vary widely on the subject of animal souls because of the way the text reads. I am also a fervent animal lover--especially dogs--so I may not be objective here and would sooner avoid this question for animals.

I also don't want to explore the Greek mindset of death because quite frankly it is too popular and wrong as it is. I will say that that Scripture clearly says the NEFESH (life, life force, soul) dies with the body, and Y'shua said that his human nefesh was troubled to death (Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23). The other interesting side of NEFESH is that Y'shua never elevated his to equivalence with YHWH. He declared it clearly as mortal, and refuted the Pharisees' very accusation on this point in John, "that you being a mere man, claim to be Elohim", i.e., that you have elevated YOUR HUMANITY to YHWH's level. Through Qnoma however we can talk in a different way about Y'shua's divinity, but that's another story.

For now, I would suggest a detailed Hebrew study of Isaiah 11:1-2 and Zechariah 12:10 for those who might be interested. For now, remember, my Christology is very high and Orthodox, but I refuse to use English terminology that was never adequate to the task. If the Greek hypostasis became outmoded there is no way I am touching "trinity" with, as one famous Jewish writer said, "with a thirty-nine and a half foot pole". (Can anyone tell me who that was??? Bonus points for giving me his real name.)

What happens during death, the first half of the process that is, is that the NEFESH dies with the body as I said but the RUACH, the breath of YHWH that brought the NEFESH to life, returns to YHWH who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7). During one of the resurrections (Daniel 12) the NEFESH and RUACH will be reunited in the body and then---


--nah can't get into that part now because it just is a lot to deal with.

Next:


If you eat blood are you eating a literal soul of the animal (not suggesting this is a good idea of course)?

AGR:

That is in fact an argument for glatt kosher, the highest form of the process. The rabbis have said that they admit their instructions go well beyond the simple procedure of pouring the blood on the ground and avoiding what Acts calls 'strangled meat". But they justify the extra procedures because of this idea that even the tiniest blood amount will literally transfer part of a dead animal's soul. The same rationale is used to frown on blood transfusions on occasion, or organ donation. Of course Torah directly prohibits, without specifying the amount, the deliberate injestion of blood as food.

Now if you are asking if I think you literally inherit an animal's soul from the least bit of blood, I would say that is a matter of semantics. I don't think I become more cow-like everytime I have a steak. On the other hand, we know it is a fact that the strength of the animal is converted by our stomach's to energy that sustains us. We literally use the life force of other things (even veggies) to maintain our bodies. Can that in some way be reflected in blood and flesh of an animal? Perhaps.


Also if your soul dies what happens to your "self"? Does it all vanish?

AGR:

At the initial stage, no nefesh vanishes. Y'shua said he did not want ANYONE to perish. But it will sleep prior to judgment and its fate will be decided for eternal life or no. (That's as far as I am going because after this it gets really hard.)

Next:

I understand the concept of the Neshama being a "link to YHWH" but I don't understand the idea of soul (hellenistic sense) and body (again hellenistic sense) being a single unified thing called a Nephesh (semitic concept) which is now a soul.

AGR:

All I will say is that the Greek language lends itself to separated definitions and a tendency to one meaning per word (not always of course). That specificity makes Greek ideal for being the language for science and medicine. Same for Latin. But Aramaic has the opposite trending where one word can have tons of meanings, so it should not be surprising that many things the Greeks would separate the Semites jam together. It also doesn't hurt to have folks like Moses and Y'shua explaining these things...

Next:

Let me see: the Nefesh is YOU, the neshama is sort of like a divine spark which grows as you listen to YHWH, and the Ruach is what Hellenism calls the soul (what's "left" after you die). Is this right? Am I missing some crucial detail?

AGR:

My issue with NESHAMA is that there is no direct Aramaic cognate to it in the NT, but there are for the other terms. Sometimes NESHAMA can be translated into a variety of words, including both ruach and nefesh, which to my mind kind of clouds that issue from an NT perspective. On the other hand, QNOMA is an NT term with no cognate in the Tanakh either. (There is maybe one place that comes close in the Psalms but it is not absolute.)

To be brutally honest though, I have almost no use for even bantying about English words like "soul" and "spirit" and try to really minimize it. I think that using a one to one word exchange for these concepts (although I translate as such but I explain it) without extra documentation is dangerous. I would not want to just say ruach equals spirit, nefesh equals soul and just leave it at that. Like Miltha, we need to go beyond mere interchange and get into somewhat lengthy and specific DEFINITIONS WITH EXAMPLES.

Hope this helps!

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - aramaic_albion - 09-18-2008

Dear Rafa,

I think that your asking Andrew questions that only ALAHA can answer.

Respectfully, Albion




Rafa Wrote:Thankyou so much Akhi Andrew, that was very kind and generous of you to post this reply when we are all confused over these terms. Now I was just thinking here...

ahem...sorry about this question:
1) Can't I just say the Nefesh is the body? Body as in physical being (the "You"- everything you have right now). I need a word. I was thinking about latin "persona"- occurence of a nature, your persona, your "being". Yes I agree that Yeshua had a human Nefesh and was ressurected by the Ruach of YHWH, and that this is not the same as an Eyvonim outlook (which is overly simplistic and to be frank heretical). Good luck with teaching that to mainstream Christianity though, it will be very tough.

2)So the Nefesh "sleeps". So far so good. Nothing new in that (like that story of the girl "sleeping" who gets revived). Ok...so your body is placed in "cryogenic" mode by YHWH somewhere seperate to him I presume, while he evaluates your spirit (Ruach) to see if you were a "good person" a good Nefesh. If not, you don't get ressurected, if yes you do get ressurected (like in that chapter of Revelations). Ressurection=Nefesh+Ruach, No ressurection both get destroyed. So that's a summary of the afterlife. I don't know if I am correct.

3) If my preliminary definition of nefesh is correct- it's an occurence of a nature (human or otherwise), a qnoma sort of (well...qnoma uses Nefesh and Ruach as building blocks, not just the Nefesh), then here's something I thought concerning the blood question: maybe your not eating a soul. Your just consuming the physical 3 dimensional nature of the being you ate. The Ruach is still around. I mean please- what if you were living in the Aztec empire and a worshipper of a pagan god came in, tore your heart out and ate it? Would your soul dissapear and you be denied an afterlife because of that person's evil? This is sounding like those middle ages arguments over anatomy, with doctors having to sneak into cemeteries to get bodies for testing because clergy thought that cutting the limbs off would anger God and the person would go to the afterlife without limbs. I know orthdox Jews believe this still (in terrorist attacks every last speck of the bodies must be obtained for burial, and terrorists often use bodies as blackmail tools because the victims are grieved and want the family member's bodies back) but it sounds so bad, so very bad. I like my "interpretation" better.



Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Paul Younan - 09-18-2008

aramaic_albion Wrote:Dear Rafa,

I think that your asking Andrew questions that only ALAHA can answer.

Respectfully, Albion

Ah, the ever-inquiring scientific western mind. Never satisfied with not knowing everything there is to know, and always seeking to understand the ineffable.

That's why Western civilization has shot into space, while in the middle east where we typically give up and call something a "mystery", we're still stuck in the middle ages.

I agree, though. Some things are not comprehensible to our minds.

+Shamasha


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-18-2008

Shlama all--

No one knows more than I the limitations of human intellect--and nowhwere is that more true than with myself. However, I will try to answer where I can:

Thankyou so much Akhi Andrew, that was very kind and generous of you to post this reply when we are all confused over these terms. Now I was just thinking here...

ahem...sorry about this question:
1) Can't I just say the Nefesh is the body? Body as in physical being (the "You"- everything you have right now). I need a word. I was thinking about latin "persona"- occurence of a nature, your persona, your "being". Yes I agree that Yeshua had a human Nefesh and was ressurected by the Ruach of YHWH, and that this is not the same as an Eyvonim outlook (which is overly simplistic and to be frank heretical). Good luck with teaching that to mainstream Christianity though, it will be very tough.

AGR:

In a word: NO! The nefesh is NOT the body. The nefesh is the life that drives the body. Akhi, I just spent a good amount of time telling you that you cannot get a one word correspondence from eastern to western paradgims, and then, you ask for that one word?? NO, use DEFINITIONS instead.

2)So the Nefesh "sleeps". So far so good. Nothing new in that (like that story of the girl "sleeping" who gets revived). Ok...so your body is placed in "cryogenic" mode by YHWH somewhere seperate to him I presume, while he evaluates your spirit (Ruach) to see if you were a "good person" a good Nefesh. If not, you don't get ressurected, if yes you do get ressurected (like in that chapter of Revelations). Ressurection=Nefesh+Ruach, No ressurection both get destroyed. So that's a summary of the afterlife. I don't know if I am correct.

AGR:

I would doubt it. A cryogenic body is still alive. I believe YHWH knows the ultimate time of our total death and the ruach does not separate prior to this. But ALL get resurrected. The question is WHICH resurrection and what happens after? As I mentioned, I know this too, but I am not going there. I think we should shoot for the first resurrection though...

3) If my preliminary definition of nefesh is correct- it's an occurence of a nature (human or otherwise), a qnoma sort of

AGR:

Stop right there. Turn around, go back, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Qnoma is NOT a nefesh nor a ruach nor a neshama. Just get that out of your mind and never return to it again. Qnoma is at a whole other level and you cannot mix these up. Qnoma, one of its meanings, is CORE SUBTANCE, therefore, ruach and nefesh and such are MADE from that stuff. Qnoma to my mind are the building blocks of spiritual matter, whereas nefesh and what not are the RESULT of that matter. To suggest equivalence between these levels is like saying amino acids and carbon are the same thing as a full human being.


(well...qnoma uses Nefesh and Ruach as building blocks, not just the Nefesh),

AGR:

No, the other way around...


then here's something I thought concerning the blood question: maybe your not eating a soul. Your just consuming the physical 3 dimensional nature of the being you ate.

AGR:

Steak qadmon??? I would doubt it. But Scripture does not say directly.


The Ruach is still around. I mean please- what if you were living in the Aztec empire and a worshipper of a pagan god came in, tore your heart out and ate it? Would your soul dissapear and you be denied an afterlife because of that person's evil?

AGR:

Of course not--where do you get these ideas Akhi? Man cannot affect the underlying structures of our being in this way. Man can kill man of course, but that's it. The disposition of the spiritual matter is for YHWH and YHWH alone to deal with. Think about what you are saying here because you know better. Even from a Christian view, you have just emptied to execution stake of its power. You have taken the ability to judge away from the Son and put it in the hands of a pagan preist!!! Think about it...


This is sounding like those middle ages arguments over anatomy, with doctors having to sneak into cemeteries to get bodies for testing because clergy thought that cutting the limbs off would anger God and the person would go to the afterlife without limbs. I know orthdox Jews believe this still (in terrorist attacks every last speck of the bodies must be obtained for burial, and terrorists often use bodies as blackmail tools because the victims are grieved and want the family member's bodies back) but it sounds so bad, so very bad.

AGR:

it doesn't matter what it sounds like. It matters where it is FROM.


I like my "interpretation" better.

AGR:

Well, sure, because if there was an interpretation you liked better...

Remember Akhi, if it's not provable directly from Scripture, AVOID IT.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-18-2008

Yeah- that's what I meant.

Qnoma--->Nefesh+Ruach

Shlama Akhi Raphael,

Yes, correct. Qnoma has no differentiation between members of the same species other than number. In other words, if you have human qnoma #36, I may have #37, but there is no other marker like we would see in a body (skin color, size, hair, etc).


like Qnoma directs the little lego blocks, the end result being a reflection of it's core substance (you, a combination of Nefesh and Ruach). You made it clear to me though- the Nefesh and Ruach can't be dissected from each other (somehow). I presume Qnoma has something to do with the Hebrew-Aramaic letters no? Kabbalah stuff.

AGR:

What have I told you just now and before about the mystical stuff? Avoid it. And no, it has nothing to do with gematriya, but even if it did I would not say.

You have taken the ability to judge away from the Son and put it in the hands of a pagan preist!!! Think about it...
What? It's still a good question. If your soul IS your body, and a pagan priest throws you into a fire, or grabs your heart, or whatever, drinks your lifeforce (blood) how can you still have a soul? Unless this "Nefesh" concept does not mean soul, but something else.

AGR:

No it is not a good question because you are not understanding me. Did I not say clearly that nefesh was not the body? Please read my previous post again. Nefesh is the life force INSIDE your body. It is not flesh. You know awhile ago people here were joking I was like Yoda and now I feel like quoting him from Empire Strikes Back: "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

Listen to me very carefully. Man cannot touch your nefesh, your ruach or your neshama. Not now, not before, not ever. These things exist beyond our reach and for very, very good reason. There is no one who can save your nefesh and ruach but Y'shua the Messiah. Anything else is confusion. This is a core-salvation issue to me and you know how I get when I feel such is threatened. Don't go there my brother. Your body, your flesh, whatever term you like, is only the end of the process. The beginning is so much more; beauty beyond expression. You are wonderfully and magnificently made, knit by YHWH Himself in the heart of the world. We all are. See Jeremiah 1.

Tell us about the second resurrection. I mean, it's seperation from YHWH, destruction no (after a "trial")?

AGR:

Daniel 12 my brother, Daniel 12. Start there. Then see Y'shua's parable of the banquet and the resurrection of the righteous. Then see where Y'shua says "Fear not those who can kill the body and after that can do more", and read the rest of that. I really don't want to upset anyone here by answering this more directly, as I am sure I also said.

"For it is appointed unto man to die but once, but after this, the judgment."

Hebrews 9:27

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth


Nashama - Stephen Silver - 09-18-2008

Shlama:
Can I wade in here. The phrase nefesh khaya simply means animated soul. Only Adam was the recipient of nishmat ruakh khayim or spiritual Breath of Elohim. (Genesis 2:7, 7:22) Man was created in the Image of Elohim and has an eternal soul but animals do not. (Genesis 1:26, Eccliasiasts 3:11, 18-21) There is some mystery about the addition of nishmat ruakh khayim to nefesh khaya which is irreversible and makes Adam eternal and subject to resurrection while nefesh khaya alone is not.
In Leviticus 17:11, 16 it is written, "the soul of the flesh is in the blood". This means that the living creature draws it's animation/soul/life from the blood. This is true. When it comes to man however, he has an eternal spirit and this eternal spirit is joined at conception to live in nefesh khaya like the LORD in His temple, in my understanding. Death will temporarily separate the spirit and soul from the fleshly body (temporary clay dwelling) of a human but we cannot escape the resurrection of the body to judgement for the things done in the body. In Meshikha we are passed from judgement into life/salvation. (John 5:24) So, the death that Yeshua is speaking about in this verse refers to eternal separation from Alaha.
It is the presence of the upper soul or nashama which makes us culpable for the sins of nefesh khaya on one hand while enabling us to enjoy Elohim forever on the other hand. For this reason, Yeshua Meshikha shed his blood and laid down his life/soul. Job invokes nashama in his discourse with his friends. Job reasons that it is the presence of nashama that should steer the counsel of his friends.

26:4 "and whose nashama came from you?"

Then Job makes a profound equivalence between nashama and the ability as well as the responsibility to speak rightly.

27:3 "as long as my nashama is in me,
and the Spirit of Eloah in my nostrils,

27:4 my lips will not speak wickedness,
nor my tongue utter deceit."

Without getting too much into Revelation 20:11-15, there will be an eternal judgement of unsaved human souls that have been resurrected for this very purpose. As for the redeemed, we will judge the world and even fallen angels.(I Corinthians 6:2-3)

This is only meant to throw some light on the subject. This whole discourse is shrouded in mystery. As Paul said, "Now we see through a mirror obscurely, but then face to face." (I Corinthians 13:12

Shlama,
Stephen
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Thirdwoe - 09-18-2008

Hummm....

Job 27:3
All the while my breath is in me, and The Spirit of God is in my nostrils;....

Job 33:4
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of The Almighty hath given me life.

Ps 33:6
By The Word of YHWH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.

John 20:22
And when He (Y'shua) had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive the Holy Spirit:


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-19-2008

Shlama Akhi Raphael,

Akhan Stephen presents some very sound exegesis generally bit Thirdwoe is also correct by raising the Job quotes because I also think that we inherited this breath from Adam who got it from YHWH. That last point might be my only divergence in Stephen's otherwise excellent argument. And we Nazarenes most certainly want to be careful when talking about inheriting stuff from Adam generally. I agree though with everything else Stephen said, including that of (general) judgment and the eternal nature of the human soul vs the animal soul.

Also wanted to respond to one other thing. You have mentioned a few times that it will be "hard" for me to teach Christianity this or that. But you see Christianity is not some monolithic thing. Some will agree, others not, and either is fine. I am not really evangelistic in "conversion" stuff but I do passionately argue for my viewpoint.

What I very much want to do though is to get Jews and Christians of all kinds excited about Scripture at pshat level, in the original Semitic framework if possible but settling for general Biblical literalism in their vernacular if necessary. I stand "orthodox"-- one of my favorite Greek words, "straight way" it means, klind of like "peshitta" no? I want to kick moral relativism and secular deconstructionism of Holy Writ to the ashcan of history, and if those who do these things with me remain Catholic, Protestant or whatever, hey that's a good day for me still. We will see about the rest down the road.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008

Quote:Job 33:4
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of The Almighty hath given me life.

nashama

Quote:Ps 33:6
By The Word of YHWH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.

ruakh

Quote:John 20:22
And when He (Y'shua) had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive the Holy Spirit

napakh

Genesis 2:7
And YHVH Elohim formed Adam dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils nishmat khayim
and Adam became nefesh khaya.

yiphakh

Shlama:
Very good addition. The very one that breathed into Adam's nostrils living nashama has become our Saviour Yeshua Meshikha. In him the spiritual tikkun (restoration) is made complete.

Shlama,
Stephen
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008

Rafa Wrote:http://www.dukhrana.com is an amazing resource by the way. So much effort placed into this work.

Shlama Akhi Rafa:
It's the genius of Lars Lindgren. He's into computer science. I transcribed the Khabouris Codex. The complete Khabouris PDF is three panels, (Translation of John Wesley Etheridge, The Transcription of the Khabouris Codex and the cropped pictures of the actual manuscript)
John Wesley Etheridge completed his translation of the Peshitta text in 1848. He followed the paragraph form of the Peshitta. I realligned his work to match the Khabouris Codex and I added the verses. I also moved his notes from the end of each paragraph realigning each note opposite the particular related verse. The whole purpose of doing this is to promote Aramaic Primacy, and facilitate study of the Khabouris Codex for all levels of expertise. There are some slight errors in the transcription so if you find one please post it, so that we know.
The look-up tools and Lexicon use Dr. George Anton Kiraz' database Sedra III. Lars made the interface user friendly and it's a joy to be able to work with him on this project. Enjoy!

Shlama,
Stephen
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008

Shlama:
We get several hits per month. The whole work is a labour of love to get the WORD of Alaha out there.

Shlama,
Stephen
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-20-2008

Shlama Akhi Stephen,

You are way too modest Akhi Khabiba. Yes I know there are a few errors here and there but your transcription of Khabouris and the other resources at Dukhrana are the best that exist. When you did this great work and I saw it, I literally had to re-think some of what I was doing with Mari to make sure I took what you did into account. Mari is closer to a critical edition because your eyes started what mine could confirm. You may not have done my work but you made it easier for me to get mine done and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

After Paul Younan's work, I would put Dukhrana as the next most important resource that I use. I put it even ahead of my beloved "Aramaic New Covenant Peshitta Text with Hebrew Translation" because Khabouris and what you did with it make it easier for me to confirm 1905.

Shlama w'burkate

Andrew Gabriel Roth


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008

Shlama Akhi Andrew:
It's been the long haul, hasn't it? Just look at where we've been and where Aramaic Primacy is today compared to just five years ago. Thanks to Paul Younan and peshitta.org. Thank you for your very encouraging words, Akhi Kabiba. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

Shlama w'Burkate,
Stephen
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Spyridon - 09-20-2008

Andrew, what do you believe regarding the Trinity and the deity of Christ?


Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-20-2008

Shlama Akhi Spyridon,

I think I have detailed my beliefs on this both recently and often. You can find a full discussion of the topic on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.aramaicnttruth.org">http://www.aramaicnttruth.org</a><!-- m -->, see Path to Life essay, pages 76-78 and 91-107. Obviously that many pages speaks to the difficulty in answering quickly. Nevertheless I will try to give you the headlines here, but ask that if you don't understand fully to simply consult these resources--that is what they are there for so I don't have to repeat the same answers all the time--before following up.

Okay so the first thing to understand is that I don't regard "Trinity" and "Y'shua's divinity" as the same issue. They are two separate questions. Trinity and tri-unity are extremely flawed English terms. They change with the wind and have no roots in the original languages of Scripture. They appear NOWHERE, and that is a fact. They are a fourth century Roman fabrication. On the other hand, Y'shua does have the full embodiment of YHWH in himself. In that sense, yes, Messiah is both 100% human and 100% divine. That is why he said, "Not my will but Your will be done". That is the only way Scripture is not broken.

When dealing with aspects of YHWH the Christian west calls Father-Son-HS PROSOPON-personna-PERSON. I reject that formualtion because plural and separated divine personalities is the essence of idolatry that Y'shua himself and others condemned:

(Exodus 20:1-3-The First Commandment)
Then Elohim instructed the people as follows: "I am YHWH your Elohim, who rescued you from slavery in Egypt. "Do not worship any other gods besides me.

(Mark 12:28-34)
One of the teachers of religious law was standing there listening to the discussion. He realized that Y'shua had answered well, so he asked, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" Y'shua replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Hear, O Israel! YHWH our Elohim is the one and only YHWH. And you must love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.' The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these." The teacher of religious law replied, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth by saying that there is only one Elohim and no other. And I know it is important to love him with all my heart and all my understanding and all my strength, and to love my neighbors as myself. This is more important
than to offer all of the burnt offerings and sacrifices required in the law." Realizing this man's understanding, Y'shua said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of Elohim." And after that, no one dared to ask him any more questions.

(1 Corinthians 8:6)
Yet for us there is but one Elohim, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live.

(1 Corinthians 10:6-7)
These events happened as a warning to us, so that we would not crave evil things as they did or worship idols as some of them did. For the Scriptures say, "The people celebrated with feasting and drinking, and they indulged themselves in pagan revelry."

(Ephesians 4:5-6)
There is only one YHWH11, one faith, one baptism, and there is only one Elohim and Father, who
is over us all and in us all and living through us all.

(James 2:18)
You believe that there is one Elohim. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

(Revelation 19:5-10)
And a voice came from the throne saying, "Give praise to our Elohim, all you his bond-servants, you who fear Him, the small and the great." And I heard, as it were, the voice of the great multitude and as the sound of many waters and the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying: "HaleluYah! For YHWH our Elohim, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give
the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. And it was given to her to clothe herself in the fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. And he said to me, "Write, blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of Elohim." And I fell to his feet to worship him. And he said to me, "Don't do that; I am a fellow servant of
yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Y'shua; worship Elohim, for the testimony of Y'shua is the gift of prophecy."

(Revelation 22:8-9)
And I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. And he said to me, "Don't do that; I am a fellow servant of yours, and of the brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship Elohim."

So this is unified testimony AGAINST TRINITY, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to understand how Y'shua is also divine.

That answer comes in Tanakh. First, in Isaiah 11:1-2 where the attributes of YHWH rest on/in Messiah. Second, and more important, Zechariah 12:10. Zechariah, whose name means "YHWH remembers" (hint), is the only prophet to predict Messiah's coming directly by his future name, although Moshe in one place appears to come close and probably also knew. Panim al panim...

Now Zechariah also in 12:10 talks about YHWH speaking directly. YHWH then says "et asher dakaru" or "towards me whom pierced they". But YHWH is not flesh but Spirit (Genesis 1:3) and therefore cannot be pierced, so how does this happen? My answer is simple. YHWH calls the Son who is pierced YACHID, ONLY, an exclusive singularity term that appears only 9 times in Tanakh. That means that Messiah has certain attributes that NO ONE BEFORE OR SINCE CAN. It is Y'shua's flesh that holds YHWH's Spirit as YACHID (only begotten) Son, so when Y'shua's flesh is pierced literally (Psalm 22:16) so is YHWH metaphorically. But it is the MAN Y'shua as Messiah who dies on the cross and is resurrected by YHWH His Father. It is Father YHWH who reunites the nefesh and ruach of Y'shua (after the Son administered to those in Sheol, which is another unique aspect and another story) and restores him to physical life.

That is why Y'shua's death on the cross was not human sacrifice which would be banned but a QORBAN (offering dedicated to YHWH) of the highest speciality, but that's another story. Only Messiah has YHWH's name IN HIM (Exodus 23:20-22) as opposed to the TITLE El, the Name above all Names (Hebrews 1, Philippians 2).

Qnoma is a long discussion that I want to avoid for the present to keep things manageable. I want you to see this part of it first. Nazarene "Godhead" for lack of a better term comes from Isaiah 53:1. Messiah is the ARM of YHWH, but remember, the ARM is not separate from the body or mind. It neither moves nor even lives without being connected to the body. But it is the ARM of YHWH that saves humanity (Exodus 6:6). This is who Y'shua is on the divine side (not his human office) as the Word or Miltha. The ARM/WORD does the work of the body, like Creation for example (Psalm 33:6).

So yes to Y'shua having his humanity and yes to him having a separate 100% divine side that is the SHARING of the ONE divine nature. But no to Trinity. No to idolatry. No to denying the Shema that Y'shua and the NT writers taught and died to keep.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth