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Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - Printable Version

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Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - *Albion* - 03-01-2008

In reading 'The Way International's Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament', Hebrews 4, verses 8 through 10 reads like this:

Vs. 8 "For if Joshua, the son of Nun, had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward about another day."

Vs. 9 "Therefore, it is remaining for the people of God to be given rest".

Vs. 10 "For he who enters into his rest has ceased also from his works as God [did] from his."

In the Greek to English translations Verse 9 usually says something like "Therefore, there remains a Sabbath rest (or as 'The Jerusalem Bible' says: 'a Seventh Day rest') for the people of God."

I would very much like to know exactly how the EASTERN text of the P'shitta New Testament translates Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8 through 10.

Thanks a lot for any help!

Shlama, Albion[font=][/font]

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - ograabe - 03-01-2008

Lamsa has for Hebrews 4: 9 -- "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath."

Dave Bauscher's interlinear confirms Lamsa's translation.


Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - *Albion* - 03-01-2008

Dear Otto,

As I've pointed out here many times, I don't believe that George M. Lamsa's Peshitta "translation" is accurate, and it's definately been polluted by his "New Age" (or 'Science of the Mind', if one prefers) beliefs.

I would go so far as to say that Lamsa's translation is SPIRITUALLY UNSAFE, and one should avoid it.

And Bauscher's Peshitta translation is from the WESTERN text of the P'shitta N.T.

Thanks anyway.

Shlama, Albion

ograabe Wrote:Lamsa has for Hebrews 4: 9 -- "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath."

Dave Bauscher's interlinear confirms Lamsa's translation.


Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - yaaqub - 03-02-2008


Although Lamsa's bible has several inaccuracies, in this particular verse, it's actually correct. Hebrews 4: 9 "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath."


Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - gbausc - 03-02-2008

Shlama all,

The Way International translated from the same text as I did (Western critical edition). The Eastern text is identical in Hebrews 4:9 (and in most other places).
I would take issue with Lamsa's "it is the duty" part of his translation. The Aramaic "Qayam" means "standing, continuing,existing,lasting". As used elsewhere in The NT, it always has the idea of "standing" or "remaining". Hebrews 4:1 uses the same word: "Let us fear, therefore, lest, while the promise of entering into His rest stands- (Qayam), any of you should be found to come short of entering." (my translation) Even Lamsa translates "Qayam" as "remains" here.
The context of discussion is not merely extending the Old Covenant Sabbath, but entering into The Rest of The Creator by faith, which is the true fulfillment of the Sabbath commandment ("For if Joshua, the son of Nun, had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterwards of another day."-verse 8 "For he who enters His rest has rested from his works as God has from His own. Let us take pains, therefore to enter that rest, lest we fall in the manner of those who were not persuaded."-verses 10 & 11 (my translation) Notice that the Sabbath rest is spoken of as the promise in 4:1, not "the duty", or "the commandment". It is also "appointed": "He appointed another day, after much time...", verse 7. The true Sabbath rest is a promise, not a commandment. Still, we must "take pains, therefore to enter that rest" by faith.

The "to keep the Sabbath" part is correct. The true keeping of the Sabbath is for those who have faith in The Messiah Yeshua, and only those. That Sabbath has no end, as God's rest is timeless.



Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - Thirdwoe - 03-02-2008

This is absolute and eternal truth.

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - Amatsyah - 03-03-2008

Shlama Albion,

I suppose if I???m going to contribute, I shall abstain from utter laziness though not get entirely exhaustive, as my limitations are broader than not any way. Firstly, I am always disheartened to see incredible trifles betwixt believers of any manner, though it be as natural as breathing, yet nevertheless sadder than watching a world war against itself. So, without taking sides or condemning anyone here, I shall remain as fidelis to the Peshitta as possible, and pray that the Text can speak all matters into order by itself. Though this is not to say that I shall be going that deep into it; rather that my limitedness when perusing it might be as precise as concise.

Following my first thought, I would like someone???s biographical testament to bear witness to something, before moving on:

???The answer was revealed to him when he found a small red copy of George Lamsa???s Aramaic New Testament translation. It was at that point that his life changed forever, and a quest was embarked upon to see if Aramaic might be the answer to his New Testament woes. The result was revolutionary, as Andrew threw himself wholeheartedly into studying various Aramaic dialects until he came to the one of the Eastern Peshitta, which was very close to that of Messiah Himself.???

(found on the last flyleaf page for both Ruach Qadim vol.???s 1 and 2)

I myself can certainly relate, taking therefore utter caution ??? rather than condemnation utterly ??? of Lamsa???s work. Yah forbid that our Andrew would not have had that otherwise unique resource available to him, at a time when the Peshitta was even less popular than today! As Paul, Andrew, Dave, Larry, Stephen, etc. all testify, the Greek however hoodwinking and corrupt, remains the Peshitta???s best ancient friend to its witness. Therefore, when Lamsa???s witness is correct, it is correct. His motives did not appear to be quite as maligned as some **other translators** out there, if you know what I mean <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink --> .

So, moving on to Dave???s Peshitt[o] translation; all personal feelings aside, please. Wherein Lamsa found New Age within his Peshitta, Glenn David finds Universalism within his. Andrew finds a 2-House Nazarene message, yet Paul finds an Assyrian orthodoxy that is anciently suitable to him. No one agrees with any one theologically, so the fuss has to end at some point. Yeah sometimes Dave is tripping over his own head as a haranguer, and sometimes we trip over our own hearts as the harung, but frankly it has all come to the point where I sit back and laugh now. We all suck! Either laugh, or cry. Wonder what Alaha does.

Now following this remark to the intended thoughts I???d like to pitch in, hopefully we can all strive more towards the lexical light of what Peshitta shines for us, desiring truly to search out just what Alaha does Himself think. After all, the Miltha did find it important enough to convey Abba???s thoughts through it to us, yes?

Hebrews 4:9:

So there remains a Sabbath rest (lemeshabato???????????????) for the people of Elohim.

Thus saith A. G. Roth.

(see his monograph ???The Path to Life???, p.87, <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->).

Hebrews 4:9:

So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Thus saith G. D. Bauscher.

(see his Plain English version, p.260). C.f. p. 695 of his Interlinear???s comment:

* For ???????????? ??? ???to keep the Sabbath???, Greek mss. have ?????????????????????????????; this word occurs nowhere else in Greek literature and is an obvious reworking of the Aramaic ???Lamshebatu??? - (to keep Sabbath) in Greek letters with grammatical noun ending.)

Looks awfully similar to Andrew???s translation, in the very least being that ???Dave???s??? Peshitt[o] matches ???Andrew???s??? Peshitt[a] word lemeshabato. We must wonder why a Universalist would possess fidelity towards this seemingly convicting word, and happen to translate the entire verse, and its surrounding pretexts and post-texts with the same character. I know it must feel egregious to look at this, but my hope is in Someone higher than man, and unfortunately not too many resources exist for English perusers.

So let???s look at the precedent Tanakh example Andrew gives us on p.87, then see if Dave doesn???t use this same noun on p.694 for Hebrews 4:4, for which on the next page he utilizes various scripts for textual commentary, and then see what The Way Intl.???s Concordance has to say about this noun, and then verse 9???s verb, yes?

Isaiah 66:22-23; p.87:

For as the new heavens and the new earth which I shall make shall endure by My will, declares YHWH, so shall your seed and your name endure, and new moon after new moon, Sabbath after Sabbath (??????), all flesh some [sic] come and worship me, says YHWH.

Hebrews 4:4; p.694:

according to / what He said / about / ???????? The Sabbath

???Sabbath: n 3100 ???????? ??? (estrangela script of course) from p.45, ???English Dictionary Supplement to the Concordance to the Peshitta Version of the Aramaic New Testament???, spelled precisely as Dave???s succeeding pictographic example in Estrangela font on p.695 (Interlinear) / (p.125 Jegar) demonstrates.

Index p.487 ???The Concordance to the Peshitta Version of the Aramaic New Testament??? indicates to us shabta can be found on p.349b, and in so turning we discover that Aramaic Shabta lexically refers to English Sabbath. Dave has struck one for Hebrews 4:4; as we flip to p.350 we find ???HEB 4:4??? lastly listed. So Dave???s Peshitt[o] reads the same as The Way???s Peshitt[a], and he translates no more or less aberrantly.

On to Hebrews verse 9???s usage, directly beneath that last entry in the Concordance here, is #3099. Remember, my intent is not to scamper across every linguistic resource available, but rather to demonstrate as concisely as possible, Dave???s fidelity in at least Hebrews 4:9, trailing firstly from Hebrews 4:4 and doing all of this actually from The Way???s resources, since it is their translation that your question is based on. This way, as an uncredentialed fellow novice, I needn???t defer to Payne Smith, SEDRA, Arayathinal and so on to try and gather whether or not Dave or Lamsa struck correct enough translations in the vicinity of your inquiry, to defend their fallibilities from absolute excommunication. As I mentioned, right now our English resources are very sparse, and so I figure I might as well defer to those you already have, for credibility???s sake.

As we see, #3099 is a verb with the active Aphel inflection, in the infinitive form and exclusive to Hebrews 4:9. The ever so brief lexical definition is ???rest??? which is a word not found in Bauscher???s or Lamsa???s verse, but indeed found in Roth???s. Yet we then must ask ourselves whether Andrew???s translation is not redundant, along with George and Dave???s being wrong since they seem to ignore an apparent morphology from ???Sabbath??? to ???rest???, no?

But this is where all of them are actually found to be correct! The Aphel inflection is active, not passive. So without getting into the prefix for a truly complete study, just remember now that we???re talking about a verb here, whereas the lexical form in Hebrews 4:4 was a NOUN. I listed Andrew???s Isaiah 66 example to demonstrate from the horse of credibility???s own mouth, precisely how this noun is used in the OT and throughout Scripture. It seamlessly exegetes straight into the NT, where even a New Ager and Universalist can faithfully get it right!

See, if we say ???Sabbath rest??? that is not to say ???rest rest???, but ???Sabbath- (indicator of the verb???s noun-root???.important for linguistic and theological signification) -rest (truly given definition, but not as a noun or a passive verb)???. Dave has further information about why Shabta also does not refer to ???seven / seventh??? ambiguously in 4:4, intimating that lamshebatu mustn???t either, since even a mere glance at Hebrews 4:4 can testify that all 3 words Sabbath, Rested, Seventh are clumped categorically in one verse, but surely AGR must have something to say (p.87, immediately following Heb. 4:9 translation):

???Can that be the same word/root meaning both "seven" and "rest"? The evidence would seem to suggest that Shabbat is still going to be around for a while, at least from the perspective of both the apostle Paul and the fact that the new heavens and new earth have not arrived just yet.???

Theological interpretations still withholding, because of this usage of ???rest??? having an active verb tense, the author of Hebrews must say that there remains a ???resting??? to be actively accomplished by the people of God, which surrounding context testifies. How to capture this in English, however, is the dilemma. I stand to be corrected if wrong, but I believe it essentially enamors the Jewish way of asking ???are you going to shabbat this Shabbat???? Perchance I even conjecture that this is why preeminent Jewish scholar Everett Fox chose to render it as ???Sabbath-ceasing??? rather than ???Sabbath-resting??? in his outstanding translation of the Torah.

At first it doesn???t make any sense, until it is realized that an active verb is being used here, requiring participation, and nonetheless unambiguous about its direct and inseparable association to its parent-root. [e.g. Leviticus 23:24 ???Speak to the Children of Israel, saying: On the seventh New-Moon, on (day) one of the New-Moon, you are to have Sabbath-ceasing, a reminder by (horn-)blasting, a proclamation of holiness??? and 23:32 ???It is Sabbath, a Sabbath-ceasing for you, you are to ...???].

Wherein this case, 4:9 ???so then it remains for the people of God to shabbat??? or ???so there remains a shabbating for the people of Elohim???. Is this not the strictest philological rendition, since the Alep is dropped from the end (though replaced by the waw)?

The term is absolutely inseparable from its root word Shabta/Shabbat. I believe that this explains a lot. But of course the word???s prefix (lm) in the Text of 4:9 itself does the job. With all this in mind, I believe the Lamsa / Bauscher rendering of ???keep the Sabbath??? accurately brackets what Aramaic #3099 word entails of itself, no different than Andrew???s rendition, engraving it justifiably within an otherwise superbly accurate translation. At least more proficience than I possess! So, Dave strikes twice, viz-a-viz Lamsa, AGR, The Way Intl. - but most importantly the Peshitt[a], and don???t we all wish it???d not go to his head?


P.S. ???Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek????, Edition 1e, March 2008, p.172 mentions ???Paul Younan: An excellent version, by an honest translator. Perhaps the only translator who admits that his version may have errors, and who translates honestly, despite possible contradictions with his beliefs or his Church. For example, though he does not believe that Jesus is ???God the Father???, he honestly translates Isaiah 9:6 as ???eternal Father???. Though his Church does not teach the honouring of the Sabbath, he honestly translates Hebrews 4:9, which clearly teaches that the Sabbath is still important to the people of God.??? Nowadays that's all you can ask for.

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - *Albion* - 03-03-2008

Shlama Ryan and friends,

Dear God, do I step into this minefield or not?

First, let me say that for many years I studied George Lamsa's New Testament every night after work. That said, I know there are people on this forum who hold Lamsa up as a great Aramaic translator. I wish to pick no fight with any of those people.

The evidence is clear that George Lamsa and his main student, Rocco Errico, both adopted the teachings of Science of Mind (promoted by Unity School of Christianity). It's also true that George Lamsa was tight with Victor Paul Wierwille of The Way International. In fact, Lamsa stayed with Wierwille and his wife for quite some time there in Ohio.

It is also true that George Lamsa kept an office at Lee's Summitt, Missouri, on the campus of the Unity School of Christianity.

So please don't take my word or anyone else's for that matter, but research this for yourself. Is George Lamsa's Bible full of new-agisms or not? If it is, in my opinion, it's spiritually dangerous especially in the hands of beginners.

I'm not sure that I can be objective about the Sabbath since I was pretty deeply involved with Church of God (Seventh Day) for quite awhile.

While I cannot at this point read either Aramaic or Hebrew, it is my opinion that the early Jewish Believers and, in fact from what I've read, the very early Church of the East itself, kept the Seventh Day as Sabbath.

Now lest someone say that I'm getting in to talking about theological issues here, I'll stop there as to the Sabbath.

But I will say one more thing. I don't think that the Seventh Day Sabbath has been obliterated nor taken out of the Bible by modern theology.

In the Beginning, God created for six days and rested on the seventh. This says more than anything that I could possibly say. Were there Jews at this time? Of course not. Did Adam and Haava "keep the Sabbath?" Were they "the people of God" in the same way that we are?

These are highly interesting questions that I personally think we should be allowed to discuss here, but it's not my forum, and I'll respect Paul's wishes in this area.

I'm tired tonight, but I hope that what I said here makes some sense. I believe that Alaha is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is only WE who change.

Ryan, I really enjoyed your post. It was inspiring, funny, and very informative all at the same time. I really appreciate you writing. It is always good to hear from you. Keep up the good work.

Your brother in Messiah,

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - ograabe - 03-03-2008

The best complete translation of the whole Peshitta including the Hebrew scriptures is Lamsa???s translation, the result of his life???s work carefully accomplished singlehandedly without the aid of computers. It is primarily a linguistic accomplishment, which he carefully documented in his books and commentaries, of which I think I have every one. Yes his translation has some flaws and not everyone agrees with his views of Aramaic idioms.

If Lamsa were able to speak today, I believe he would not agree with the Unity School or Rocco Errico. Lamsa???s was a dedicated Christian trained in Anglican schools. Yes, he accepted financial support from various sources so that his life???s work could progress, but he also remained staunchly independent and resistant to outside influences.

The George Lamsa that I met and talked with for two hours many years ago was theologically orthodox. He did not support new age movements. With regard to his theology and linguistics his commentaries are the best source of his views. It is clear that he was no crackpot and his translation of the Peshitta though not perfect is certainly NOT ???SPIRITUALLY UNSAFE???.

With regard to Hebrews 4: 9-10, here are Lamsa???a own words from NEW TESTAMENT COMMENTARY, A.J. Holman Company, 1945, pp. 460-461:

GOD???S LAW IS ETERNAL (Hebrews 4:9-10)

The fourth commandment decrees that the seventh day must be observed as a day of rest. This is because God completed the creation of heaven and earth in six days and on the seventh day rested from his work (Gen, 2:2). ???six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:.... For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it??? (Exod. 20: 9-11), The Eastern text reads ???Therefore, the people of God must observe the Sabbath.???

The Sabbath is to be kept until man enters into eternal rest and dwells forever with his Creator. Palestine is symbolical of heaven, and the Sabbath is a symbol of everlasting rest. The Hebrews, after entering into the promised land, rested from their many desert difficulties and trials. They found food, wine, honey and other comforts and luxuries which are not within the reach of desert dwellers, In other words, they found some physical rest, but were far off from the new Jerusalem and eternal rest. And even after their conquest of Palestine the Hebrews were often harassed and defeated by their enemies.

Joshua brought them into the land of promise, but because it took them many centuries before they were able to subdue some of their enemies, Joshua could not give them eternal rest. David, four hundred years later, spoke of another day.

Therefore, it is necessary for the people to keep the law of God and observe the Sabbath until they enter into the kingdom of God. The law and the prophets remain as of yore until all things are fulfilled and the forces of evil destroyed. Jesus did no come to destroy the law and the prophets, but to fulfill them. Christians must labor hard in order to hasten God???s reign, so that they may enter into his kingdom and his eternal rest.

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - gbausc - 03-03-2008

Shlama Akhi Ryan,

Thank you (I think) <!-- s:eh: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eh.gif" alt=":eh:" title="Eh" /><!-- s:eh: --> for your last post. You are an extremely interesting and intelligent guy, and I appreciate the depth of thought and feeling you put into your posts. I shall try to maintain my current hat size, albeit, with much difficulty. <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/poketoungeb.gif" alt="Tongue" title="Poke Tounge" /><!-- sTongue -->

Seriously, I believe I was carried along by "Someone higher than man" in my study and translation of The Peshitta. I dare not take the credit for that. If I have come across as arrogant and proud, please forgive me. My zeal sometimes consumes me. I am always struggling with how to present what I believe and feel in a way that is acceptable to my LORD and Savior, first and foremost. I am not proud, only jealous for God's honor and Name.
I can see no equal competitor with that when I am confronted by what I perceive as a challenge to it.

Perhaps this is a fault in me; I hope not.

Yours always for The Truth,


Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - Amatsyah - 03-09-2008

Each time I read the Peshitta in Plain English my heart is arrested! I can feel the power and ???simplicity??? rearranging my dendrites. Merely displaying open the Interlinear upon a book ledge emanates an aeon of unbroken scribal fortitude.

A man consumed by zeal is a man consumed by faith. I cannot contend with that!

May we all enter the understanding of His perfect knowledge, together. Sometimes I have to be a kid, but other times I try to be a bridge between those I look up to. I wish this were not so, and together could all see the One while being one soul!

[Gn. 1:26-27, 2:7 / Jn. 1:1-3, 4; Dt. 6:4, 5 / Mk. 12:29, 30; Jn. 17:6, 8, 10; so that Acts 2:42-45, 46 / Jn. 17:11, 21, 22a, 23a; and Acts 2:6-11; since Jn. 17:15, 18; for Jn. 17:22b, 23b; because Jn. 17:24 / Gn. 2:18a ]!

<!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> Akh Ryan

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - gbausc - 03-09-2008

Shlama Akhi Ryan,

I'm glad you find the translations spiritually beneficial. What do you think of my translation of John 17:2 ?

Have you contemplated the power of this prayer recorded in John 17, considering Who He is Who prayed it?

What conclusion shall we therefore draw concerning His request, "that the world shall know that You have sent me, and that You have loved them as also You have loved me" ?

Can He be denied?

PS: I know what you mean about the rearranging of the "dendrites". It has the same effect on me. May the world experience a major realignment of "dendrites".


Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-14-2008

Shlama all--

As a Nazarene Jew, it should go without saying that I support Hebrews 4:8 as reading, at least in part, for the people of Elohim to keep a literal seventh day Shabbat. Here is the translation as it now appears:

9. For there remains a Shabbat for the people of Elohim.

I have though NO TROUBLE with the idea of having it also mean "to keep the Shabbat" and obviously I don't intend any reading as an endorsement of anti nomian theology.

And here are my footnotes as they currently stand. I may add to them though:

1269 Neither Aramaic nor Greek has ???Shabbat rest???; the word ???rest??? was added by replacement theologians in a bid to twist the Seventh Day Shabbat into a futuristic fulfillment. Paul teaches that the Kedoshim (Set Apart people) who enter into Shabbat here and now, are entering into the work of the Ruach haKodesh, but also towards the eternal Shabbat of the Olam Haba (World/Age to Come). Paul is writing to a Jewish audience; he need not explain the joy of Shabbat, but he magnifies haMishchah (the anointing) received on Shabbat that is a taste of the Olam Haba. The Ruach haKodesh (Shabbat Bride) in the Spirit of Mashiyach makes Shabbat a very special time. Because a person goes to church on Saturday does not necessarily indicate that they automatically enter into Shabbat. For some, ???Sabbath??? is a denominational or doctrinal theology, rather than weekly Set Apart time to wait on YHWH and His Mashiyach. The 4th Commandment to remember the Shabbat is from YHWH; the theology to NOT observe Shabbat originates with early Christo-Pagans who integrated Christian values into calendars that were based on sun worship. Theological attempts to use this verse to abolish Shabbat are founded on both pagan and anti-Semitic rhetoric. Notice that in Greek Bibles the term sabbatismos is sandwiched between the katapauo (vs <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> and katapausis (vs 10) which is a common Greek term for ???rest???. In reality Greek speakers have clarified the meaning of sabbatismos as the observance of Shabbat, see Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3; Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2.

1270 While ???rest??? certainly has metaphoric attributes, it is clearly meant here as the very literal Seventh Day Shabbat. Paul says Shabbat was established from that Seventh Day of Creation when YHWH Himself rested, Genesis 2:2. Shabbat is extremely relevant to Netzari (Nazarenes) and ???Elohim fearing Gentiles???; it could not possibly have changed during this period or any other period, as Christian theologians posture. It was not the followers of Y???shua who changed the Day of rest from Shabbat to Sun-day, but Pagan philosophers skilled in syncretism who melded sun worship with early Roman based religio-political ???Christianity???. Jewish and Gentile followers of Y???shua are well acquainted with Isaiah 56:1-8; (verse 3-5 relates to Gentiles); Isaiah 59:8-21; Isaiah 66:22-24; Ezekiel 46:1-4; Isaiah 42:1-4. Shabbat is a rehearsal of the 7th millennium; it is a sign between YHWH and ALL His people both Jew and Gentile. Shabbat is a day which is commanded by YHWH that we cease from the mundane and enter into His rest in preparation for the Olam Haba. This letter from Rav Shaul was written for the benefit of Jewish followers of Mashiyach who were being enticed back into Rabbinical Judaism. Paul would most certainly not attempt to diminish the Seventh Day Shabbat to Jews who have Torah Consciousness. The 7th Day Shabbat is the 4th of the Aseret HaDibrot ???the Ten Commandments???, written by the finger of YHWH upon stone and transferred in Mashiyach to the hearts of His People!

I don't include this information as a way to encourage debate on theological beliefs that are very well esablished. Rather, I am including these notes to demonstrate that I am referring to the seventh day Shabbat as both a matter of present and future observance. I respect the theological differences that exist on this forum and normally would not get this specific at all, were it not for the fact that some were wondering what my actual view is on this verse and its proper interpretation, so I only mean to set the record straight, not launch into another thread about this as an arguing point.

Shlama w'burkate AND SHABBAT SHALOM
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - Paul Younan - 03-14-2008


No one has ever disputed that there is a Sabbath Rest for the people of God. The Sabbath has always been Saturday and it always will be. It is the seventh day of the week. Sunday has always been the first day of the week. It has never been a sabbath. It is not a day of rest or restricted activity and it is not designed as such. It is the first day of the week; to Christians, the Lord's day.

The command to "Sabbath" is a commandment to "Rest", not to "Assemble and worship". In fact, by assembling together on the Seventh Day you are in fact breaking the commandment to "rest."

Let's put this to "rest", shall we? This is really a silly argument.

Re: Hebrews Chapter 4, Verses 8-10 - gbausc - 03-14-2008

Shlama Akhi Andrew,

Just a fine point on the translation of verse 9: "Lemashbathu" is most certainly an infinitive verb, as indicated by Lamed-Mem proclitics and the waw ending- all indicators that this is not a noun, but an infinitive -"to keep Sabbath" , or "to rest".

Burkta b'Meshikha Yeshua,