CoE on eschatology - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: Communities (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Church of the East Forum (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=22) +--- Thread: CoE on eschatology (/showthread.php?tid=1523) |
CoE on eschatology - Christina - 02-28-2008 Shlama CoE brethren, Do you know where I can get some CoE commentaries on eschatology? Even though Revelation is not in your cannon, do you teach it and study it? What are your views on these popular eschatological debates: 1. preterism, futurism, historism, idealism 2. premellinialism, amellinialism, postmellinialism 3. literal vs allegorical interpreation of the visions of Daniel and Revelation I would love to get an Eastern/Aramaic perpestive on this topic. Thanks, Christina. Re: CoE on eschatology - Paul Younan - 02-29-2008 Christina Wrote:1. preterism, futurism, historism, idealism Hi Christina, Personally I've never heard or read of a single sermon or teaching on any of these topics from within the CoE. I can comment that on the 3rd question, literal vs. allegorical, the CoE patrimony typically follows the "Antiochian School" of thought in that the general tendency of literal/scientific interpretations in both theological formulations and prophesy are preferred. As you may know, Revelation has never been in the equation. Generally speaking, there's really no focus in the CoE about "end-times" stuff. Re: CoE on eschatology - Christina - 02-29-2008 Thanks for the reply akhi Paul. So then what is the CoE opinion on the prophecies of Daniel and the Gog and Magog war (Ezekiel 38-39)? Is it true that the Peshitta Tanakh calls Gog "China" and Magog "Mongolia"? If yes, how did the Peshitta Tanakh get that readintg? Once again, thanks so much for help. Re: CoE on eschatology - Paul Younan - 02-29-2008 Christina Wrote:Thanks for the reply akhi Paul. So then what is the CoE opinion on the prophecies of Daniel and the Gog and Magog war (Ezekiel 38-39)? Is it true that the Peshitta Tanakh calls Gog "China" and Magog "Mongolia"? If yes, how did the Peshitta Tanakh get that readintg? Hey Christina, Please see the following: http://www.oxuscom.com/Medieval_Syriac_Historians_on_the_Turks.pdf Re: CoE on eschatology - Christina - 02-29-2008 Thanks again, I've always believed Gog and Magog had something to do with the Turks. Re: CoE on eschatology - Paul Younan - 02-29-2008 Christina Wrote:Thanks again, One thing Greeks and Assyrians have always agreed on is the Turks! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> You know, we had them all Christian at one time before they converted to Islam! Re: CoE on eschatology - Christina - 03-02-2008 Paul Younan Wrote:One thing Greeks and Assyrians have always agreed on is the Turks! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Very true! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Even today, if you take a trip to Greece, the Greeks still can't stand them, and refer to them as "sekhameni Turki" (bloodsucking Turks). (Including my relatives in Thessaloniki, my grandparents were from Turkey). And they still refuse to call Istanbul by it's new name, they'll only ever call it "Konstantinopoli". Even the Arabs can't stand them! Quote:You know, we had them all Christian at one time before they converted to Islam! What can I say, the enemy is determined to undo any work we do for MarYah & His Son. I've read before that the pre-Islamic Turks tried out different faiths including Buddhaism & Judaism, in addition to "Nestorian" Christianity (so yes you were right about that). And to think that the apostle Paul spent so much time & effort in the region (Asia Minor) bringing the gentiles to faith in Y'shua, but now it's infested with the "antichrist" spirit (same goes for Mesopotamia & the rest of the Mid East)! BTW what is your opinion of all those OT prophecies about "the Assyrian"? Sorry, Bible Prophecy is a huge interest for me. Re: CoE on eschatology - Paul Younan - 03-03-2008 Christina Wrote:Very true! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Even today, if you take a trip to Greece, the Greeks still can't stand them, and refer to them as "sekhameni Turki" (bloodsucking Turks). (Including my relatives in Thessaloniki, my grandparents were from Turkey). And they still refuse to call Istanbul by it's new name, they'll only ever call it "Konstantinopoli". Even the Arabs can't stand them! All four of my grandparents were from modern-day Turkey as well. I like the bloodsucking quote: my grandfather used to tell me if I ever shook the hand of a Turk to count my fingers when I got it back. =) 'Course he watched both of his parents get their neck sliced off and thrown into a pit of Christian bodies because they wouldn't convert to Islam. And his little sister was kidnapped by them never to be seen again. Then they cut his neck (at 12 years old), but they missed the major arteries and he survived. Can't blame him too much for those harsh feelings. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> Christina Wrote:What can I say, the enemy is determined to undo any work we do for MarYah & His Son. I've read before that the pre-Islamic Turks tried out different faiths including Buddhaism & Judaism, in addition to "Nestorian" Christianity (so yes you were right about that). And to think that the apostle Paul spent so much time & effort in the region (Asia Minor) bringing the gentiles to faith in Y'shua, but now it's infested with the "antichrist" spirit (same goes for Mesopotamia & the rest of the Mid East)! Once the Cradle of Civilization, now the Armpit of Satan. =) Christina Wrote:BTW what is your opinion of all those OT prophecies about "the Assyrian"? Sorry, Bible Prophecy is a huge interest for me. Personally, I believe in the prophetic rebirth of Assyria: "In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptian shall serve with the Assyrians. In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:" (Isaiah 19:23-24) However, even if "Assyria" is never reborn....remember that 99% of Assyrians/Babylonians today are Arabic-speaking and Muslim. They are known as "Iraqis", of the Shiite and Sunni branches. Iraqis are just Babylonians and Assyrians who converted from paganism to Christianity, then to Islam. The only "Arabs", in the ethnic sense, are people from Arabia. The nations of the middle east speak Arabic, but none are "Arabs" ethnically except for those in (Saudi) Arabia. The Arabic-speaking Muslims of modern-day Syria are the descendants of the old Arameans. The Arabic-speaking Muslims of Lebanon are Phoenicians. Arabic-speaking Muslims in Egypt are descended from the old Egyptians. None of these people are "Arabs." Likewise, in Mexico, most of the people are natives (Aztecs, Mayans, etc.) even though they are Spanish-speaking and Catholic. Just because they speak Spanish and practice Roman Catholicism doesn't make them Spaniards, right? So even if there's never a nation called "Assyria" again, still the "Assyrians" are today alive and well in ancient Mesopotamia. Did that make sense? <!-- s:eh: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eh.gif" alt=":eh:" title="Eh" /><!-- s:eh: --> Could the "Anti-Christ" be an ethnic "Assyrian" (whatever that means?), Sure. Saddam was one "Assyrian' who sure came close, after gassing hundreds of Christian Assyrian villages in the north and making up plans to invade all the rest of the nations in the middle east, especially Israel. Re: CoE on eschatology - Christina - 03-03-2008 Paul Younan Wrote:Personally, I believe in the prophetic rebirth of Assyria: Yes I heard that many Assyrians view that passage in this way. Since it mentions Egypt as well, I wonder how the Copts view it. Where I'm living at the moment, I don't have an opportunity to interact with CoE Christians (there's no CoE Parish where I live), will be moving to London, UK later this year, and maybe then I'll get an opportunity to attend a CoE Parish & maybe even learn at least some Aramaic. There is a CoE Parish in London, UK right? Quote:However, even if "Assyria" is never reborn....remember that 99% of Assyrians/Babylonians today are Arabic-speaking and Muslim. They are known as "Iraqis", of the Shiite and Sunni branches. Yes it does make sense, and the Arabs view it this way as well. I once dated an Iraqi Arab who was a convert to Christianity from Shia Islam, and he told me that the Iraqi Arabs do view themselves as the descendents of the Babylonians & Assyrians. Quote:Could the "Anti-Christ" be an ethnic "Assyrian" (whatever that means?), Sure. Saddam was one "Assyrian' who sure came close, after gassing hundreds of Christian Assyrian villages in the north and making up plans to invade all the rest of the nations in the middle east, especially Israel. Ethnic "Assyrian" most probably, after all that's the only clue Scripture gives for his ethnicity, otherwise he's called by his "royal titles" (King of Babylon, Prince of Tyre, Gog of Magog, Pharaoh of Egypt, etc.). However (IMO) it's pretty obvious that he's Muslim, he certainly behaves like one, I believe he's the Mahdi whom Muslims are waiting for. Taking what you said about the modern Muslim Lebanese, Iraqis, Jordanians, etc. I think that Psalm 83 illustrates these Muslim nations & peoples comming against Israel: 83:1 Elohim, don???t keep silent. Don???t keep silent, and don???t be still, Elohim. 83:2 For, behold, Your enemies are stirred up. Those who hate You have lifted up their heads. 83:3 They conspire with cunning against Your people. They plot against Your cherished ones. 83:4 ???Come,??? they say, ???and let???s destroy them as a nation, that the name of Yisra'el may be remembered no more.??? 83:5 For they have conspired together with one mind. They form an alliance against You. 83:6 The tents of Edom [Jordan] and the Ishmaelites [Saudis]; Moab [Jordan], and the Hagrites [Egyptians]; 83:7 Gebal [Lebanon], Ammon [Jordan], and Amalek [Jordan]; Philistia [Palestine] with the inhabitants of Tyre [Lebanese]; 83:8 Assyria [Iraq] also is joined with them. They have helped the children of Lot [Jordanians]. Selah. Re: CoE on eschatology - Christina - 03-03-2008 Paul Younan Wrote:All four of my grandparents were from modern-day Turkey as well. For me it's my grandparents of my father's side (I'm actually half Greek). But they moved to Greece (Alexandropoli, which still has a substancial Turkish population), when they were kids and my dad was born there. I don't know exactly where in Turkey they're from, my relatives tell me from "Khili" (don't know how that's spelled in Turkish), tried looking for it on a map, but so far no luck, must be a small village, though they say it's near the western coast. Quote:I like the bloodsucking quote: my grandfather used to tell me if I ever shook the hand of a Turk to count my fingers when I got it back. =) Certainly not! And let's not forget the Armenian & Assyrian genocides by the Ottomans, that wasn't that long ago. I'd like to know more about the "dhimnitude" that Eastern Christianity has been subject to. Any books you can recommend? Re: CoE on eschatology - Paul Younan - 03-03-2008 Christina Wrote:Certainly not! And let's not forget the Armenian & Assyrian genocides by the Ottomans, that wasn't that long ago. I'd like to know more about the "dhimnitude" that Eastern Christianity has been subject to. Any books you can recommend? Oh yes, on the holocaust: http://www.aina.org/books/stnd.htm http://www.aina.org/books/lwp.pdf http://www.aina.org/books/tboa/tboa.htm http://www.aina.org/books/fla/fla.htm A review by bat-Yeor of an excellent book by Mordechai Nisan: http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/by_nisan_minorities_review.pdf Here is the book on Amazon: (highly recommended) http://www.amazon.com/Minorities-Middle-East-Struggle-Self-Expression/dp/0786413751/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204566082&sr=8-1 Bat Yeor Wrote:By Bat Yeor Re: CoE on eschatology - Paul Younan - 03-03-2008 Rafa Wrote:Either way, the region was truly a Jewel before Islam started, the West was a joke compared to the civilizations contained in Mesopotamia. Akhi Rafa, check out this interview: http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4D818187-782D-4AA9-BEFA-64C5A00D9677 Peter Betbasoo Wrote:The New Testament is written in parables. Seldom is the point of the story expressed directly. The reader is asked to read a parable and figure out what it means. Reading the New Testament requires analysis, it engages the critical thought processes of interpretation and deduction. |