Twenty Two Books - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: Communities (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Church of the East Forum (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=22) +--- Thread: Twenty Two Books (/showthread.php?tid=1429) Pages:
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Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-11-2008 Shlama Akhay, As many of you already know, the Hebrew canon of the OT contains only 22 books. They are the same as the Christian OT canon, but it's just that the Jews reckoned certain books as one, such as the two Books of Samuel, the two Books of Kings, the two books of Chronicles, the Twelve Minor Prophets which were originally written on a single scroll, Judges with Ruth and Jeremiah with Lamentations. In the 1st century, Josephus writes: Josephus Wrote:For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, as the Greeks have, but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine. Another early witness is Origen (185 ??? 254 AD): Quote:Nor must we fail to observe that not without reason the canonical books are twenty-two, according to the Hebrew tradition, the same in number as the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. For as the twenty-two letters may be regarded as an introduction to the wisdom and the Divine doctrines given to men in those Characters, so the twenty-two inspired books are an alphabet of the wisdom of God and an introduction to the knowledge of realities. Even Jerome, the famous Hebrew and Aramaic scholar and author of the Vulgate (347-420 AD): Quote:As, then, there are twenty-two elementary characters by means of which we write in Hebrew all we say, and the compass of the human voice is contained within their limits, so we reckon twenty-two books, by which, as by the alphabet of the doctrine of God, a righteous man is instructed in tender infancy, and, as it were, while still at the breast. Is it a coincidence that the eastern canon of the Peshitta NT contains 22 books? <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s --> Re: Twenty Two Books - *Albion* - 01-11-2008 Paul Younan said: "Is it a coincidence that the eastern canon of the Peshitta NT contains 22 books?" I seriously doubt it! Wow! I'm blown away. Everytime that I learn something more about the Eastern Text of the P'shitta NT, I'm even MORE blown away! <!-- s:bomb: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bomb.gif" alt=":bomb:" title="The Bomb" /><!-- s:bomb: --> lol Shlama, Albion Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-11-2008 Akhi Albion, As the Jews categorized the three sections of the OT canon ("Law", "Prophets" and "Writings", c.f. Luke 24:44), hence the term TaNaKh (for Torah, Nevi'im, Khetuvim), so too the CoE categorizes the NT canon into three sections: The Gospels, Acts and the Epistles. Re: Twenty Two Books - gbausc - 01-14-2008 Shlama Akhi Paul, I believe in a 21 book canon. The 4 Gospels, Acts, James, Peter (1&2), John (1,2,3), Jude, Romans, Corinthians (1,2) Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians (1,2), Timothy (1,2), Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, Revelation, using the Jewish method of reckoning for the Hebrew Bible (which is a bit contrived, since it lumps Jeremiah's writings into one book, Judges and Ruth together as one, but The Torah of Moses remained 5 separate books, which is hardly consistent). By the same method, you have a 19 book Eastern canon. Hardly a sexy number, except by Islamic standards. Burkta, Dave Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-14-2008 Hey, take it up with the Jews, Josephus, Origen and Jerome. I'm just the messenger! Re: Twenty Two Books - Dawid - 01-16-2008 Paul Younan Wrote:Hey, take it up with the Jews, Josephus, Origen and Jerome. I'm just the messenger!lol. I have to admit, I was about to say almost exactly what Mr. Bauscher did when I saw that he beat me to it. You're not measuring the two equally. Even ancient sources are inconsistent as to how many books they count in the TN"K. If you are going to count the TN"K according to it's method, you should really do the same with the NT. Matthew, Mark, Luke&Acts, John, Yaqub, I&II Peter, I-III John, Jude, Romans, Corinthians (I&II), Galatians, Ephesians, Philippaians, Colossians, Thessalonians (I&II), Timothy (I&II), Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, Revelation. At most this counts 21, and if we combine the Catholic Epistles, like the Minor Prophets are, then we end up with a mere 16 at most. It could be counted as low as 14. It's like an equation. Anything that you do to one side you must do to the other side also. Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-16-2008 I think both of you are misunderstanding the intent of the post. I'm not dogmatically declaring how many books are in either canon, or even justifying the rationale behind the groupings. I found it interesting that the Jews tried really hard to come up with a 22-book canon, to give it a mystical relationship to the 22-letter alphabet. After all, Origen and Jerome didn't come up with that rationale on their own. I thought the link between the CoE's 22-book canon and the Jewish desire to maintain a 22-book canon may have historical importance in the sense that the CoE was almost entirely Jewish for the first few centuries. And we also happen to have the same 22 letters in the alphabet. Just an interesting link, that's all. Don't get all up in a tizzy or anything! Re: Twenty Two Books - gbausc - 01-16-2008 Intent of the post aside, Paul, you have to admit, The COE may have been interested in coming up with a 22 book canon for the same reasons The Jews came up with one. Is it not then possible that whoever first compiled the 22 books together excluded some books because it would have messed up the number 22, and he (they) had already decided that 22 was the magic number? Dave Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-16-2008 Anything is possible, but that hardly explains why the West had so much trouble with these books. Revelation was resisted in the west for a long time, it was the last one accepted "universally" by the west. Not until the 8th century or so was it "cleared" by everyone. The other 4 had a hard time being accepted, too. Why did the Synod of Laodicea (~363 CE) exclude Revelation? Laodicea was hardly CoE, right? Quote:Canon 59. Let no private psalms nor any uncanonical books be read in the church, but only the canonical ones of the New and Old Testament. No mention of Revelation. Nada. And wasn't Laodicea one of the "Seven Churches" addressed in Revelation? Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-16-2008 Dave, Here is the Canon of Cyril of Jerusalem: (315-386 CE) Quote:Then of the New Testament there are four Gospels only, for the rest have false titles and are harmful. The Manicheans also wrote a Gospel according to Thomas, which being smeared with the fragrance of the name 'Gospel' destroys the souls of those who are rather simple-minded. Receive also the Acts of the Twelve Apostles; and in addition to these the seven Catholic Epistles of James, Peter, John, and Jude; and as a seal upon them all, and the latest work of disciples, the fourteen Epistles of Paul. No mention of Revelation. Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-16-2008 Akhi Dave, The Canon of Gregory of Nazianus (329-389 CE), hardly a CoE prelate: Quote:List of books of the Old Testament ... Not a mention of the Apocalypse. Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-16-2008 The Canon of Amphilochius of Iconium (after 394 CE) Quote:It is time for me to speak of the books of the New Testament. Here you have a Cappadocian bishop, in Asia Minor, basically approving the 22 book canon of the CoE. For he mentions that the other 4 are in dispute, and practically rejects Revelation by consensus of the majority. Re: Twenty Two Books - Paul Younan - 01-16-2008 The Stichometery of Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (806-815 CE) Quote:And the (writings) of the Old Testament which are gainsaid and are not recognized in the Church (canonized) are the following: Was the Patriarch of Constantinople a part of the CoE? And look at the late date of 9th century AD! Don't make this a CoE thing, apparently this book was doubted by the west for a long time, too. Re: Twenty Two Books - yaaqub - 01-16-2008 Shlama Paul, Thank you for all these resources. This will be very helpful and time saving for research. Ya'aqub Re: Twenty Two Books - gbausc - 01-17-2008 AD 200 Muratorian Canon Four Gospels Acts Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon James I & II John Jude Revelation of John Revelation of Peter Wisdom of Solomin for private study: Shepherd of Hermas AD 250 AD Origen's collection Four Gospels Acts Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon I Peter I John Revelation of John disputed: Hebrews James II Peter II & III John Jude Shepherd of Hermas Letter of Barnabas Teaching of Twelve (Didache) Gospel of the Hebrews 300 AD Eusebius's collection Four Gospels Acts Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon I Peter I John Revelation of John disputed: Hebrews James II Peter II & III John Jude Purposely excluded: Shepherd of Hermas Letter of Barnabas Teaching of Twelve (Didache) Gospel of the Hebrews Revelation of Peter Acts of Peter AD 400 Council of Carthage Four Gospels Acts Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon Hebrews James I & II Peter I, II, & III John Revelation of John All the above canons and counsels have Revelation from AD 200 on. The Western canon was settled at the current 27 books in AD 397. Burkta, Dave |