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Is it good men or good hope? - Printable Version

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Is it good men or good hope? - ograabe - 02-19-2005

February 18, 2005

In Luke 2:14 the Peshitta has:
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]04n0 Ynbl 0b= 0rbsw 0ml4 09r0 L9w 0mwrmb 0hl0l Fxwb4t [/font]

Lamsa translates this: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and good hope for men."

The Greek texts seem confused about this verse.

In the King James we see: "Glory to God in the highest and on earth good will toward men."

The NRSV has "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace among those who he favors."

The UBS Greek interlinear says "Glory in the highest to God peace among men of good will.'

Is this a Greek translation problem? Does [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0b=[/font] modify [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]04n0[/font] or [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rbsw[/font] ?

Otto


- Paul Younan - 02-19-2005

Shlama Akhi Otto,

The presence of the Lamed Proclitic ("unto") before the noun "men" (actually, the idiomatic "sons of men") indicates that it is they that are to receive "Good Hope." (As the first Lamed Proclitic in this sentence indicates that it is "God" who is to receive the "Glory.")

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]04n0 Ynbl 0b= 0rbsw 0ml4 09r0 L9w 0mwrmb 0hl0l Fxwb4t[/font]

If the Greek translator's eyes played tricks on him, and he thought he saw:

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]04n0 Ynb 0b=l 0rbsw 0ml4 09r0 L9w 0mwrmb 0hl0l Fxwb4t[/font]

I can see him make that type of error. Notice the shifting of the Lamed Proclitic to the previous word renders a completely different reading. If there is indeed a variance in how Greek manuscripts read in this verse, then you may have hit upon something significant.


- peshitta_enthusiast - 02-19-2005

Unfortunately as the variant is only a missing sigma, I don't think this indicates an Aramaic original. More of an "English variant" from the Greek.


- ograabe - 02-19-2005

February 19, 2005

Nestle-Aland 27 has a long list of Greek and Latin variants for LUKE 2:14, but I am not skilled at decoding their special notation. Maybe one of you can explain it to me. This seems to be more than just a Greek-to-English problem.

Thanks for your help....

Otto


- Dan Gan - 02-19-2005

ograabe Wrote:February 19, 2005

Nestle-Aland 27 has a long list of Greek and Latin variants for LUKE 2:14, but I am not skilled at decoding their special notation. Maybe one of you can explain it to me. This seems to be more than just a Greek-to-English problem.

Thanks for your help....

Otto


Luke 2:14 in Nestle-Aland

doxa en uyistois qew kai epi gjs eirjnj en anqrwpois eudokias

It means the original hands of the copyists of Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus have the above reading. Other ancient manuscripts that support the above reading are the following Codices: Alexandrinus, D, W, a few Vulgate manuscripts (according to Vulgata Stuttgartiensis). The Greek reading is supported, but with some slight variation in Sahidic version. It is also found in the writings of Cyril of Jerusalem (A.D. 386) and Origen (A.d. 254) cited this particular passage more than once and in more than one form or a reading not found in Nestle-Aland critical apparatus.

doxa en uyistois qew kai epi gjs eirjnj anqrwpois eudokia

The above reading (i.e. in Latin bonae voluntatis [i.e. "of good will" - pardon me for my poor Latin translation]) is found in Vulgate (editio Clementina), Old Latin, and Latin translation of Irenaeus.


doxa en uyistois qew kai epi gjs eirjnj en anqrwpois eudokia

The above reading is found in the majority text, and the following Greek Codices: L, Theta, Xi, Psi, f1 (i.e. Family 1 which is a group of manuscripts like 1, 118,131,209,1582, and others according to the studies done by Kirsop Lake), f13 (i.e. Family 13 also known as The Ferrar Group (named after W.H. Ferrar who collated four important manuscripts of the Gospels) which is a group of manuscripts like 13,69,124,174,230,346,543,788,826,828,983,1689,1709, etc.
The above reading also could be found in the writings of Eusebius of Caesarea (A.D. 339) and Ephiphanius of Constantia (A.D. 403) and Origen as mentioned earlier.
The Syriac Peshitta and the Coptic version of Bohairic also support the above reading. The second hand of the correctors of Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus corrected the manuscripts to the above reading.

It is not wise to give comments based on English translations of the Greek as the Greek might used the correct word for the Aramaic (I hope you get what I mean as we should not compare English translation of the Greek with English translation of the Aramaic). The additional s in above reading that is eudokias could be translated like the NRSV you quoted above i.e. men in whom God is well pleased. I need to do more study on this passage.
Quote:NRSV has "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace among those who he favors."

Also please take note that Dr Bruce M. Metzger, one of the editors of Nestle-Aland 27 is also the editor of NRSV.

It is not wise for me to give comments late at night without doing any careful study. I hope this would help.

Time to go to bed. Signing off at 4:31 am

Peace & good hope to you.


- ograabe - 02-20-2005

February 20, 2005

Dear Paul and Dan:

I am very appreciate of the very helpful and detailed replies. Thank you very much. This is really helping me learn.

Sincerely,

Otto


- ograabe - 02-22-2005

February 21, 2005

Now I wonder, if the Greek text does not agree with the Peshitta text for Luke 2:14, why does the KJV agee with the Peshitta? Lamsa, Murdock, and the King James Version are all essentially identical! However, it seems that the Textus Receptus (Majority text) does not support the KJV translation which was made from that text.

Otto