![]() |
Questions re peshitta primacy - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Aramaic Primacy Forum (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: Questions re peshitta primacy (/showthread.php?tid=1163) |
Questions re peshitta primacy - judge - 01-02-2005 Hi all, I have been discussing peshitta primacy in another place and have come up against the following obejections. Quote:In Mk 15:16, we are told that "the soldiers led him [Jesus] into the courtyard of the palace," and then the text explains for his Roman audience, "that is, the praetorium." That explanation has been translated into the Peshitta. Any thoughts? - ograabe - 01-03-2005 January 3, 2005 Whoever wrote these comments apparently reads Greek better than Aramaic. These arguments seem to be based primarily on the Greek translations, not on the original Aramaic of the Peshitta. Mark 15:16 in the Peshitta just says ???...and the soldiers led him away in the courtyard that was the Praetorium...??? SEEMS ONLY TO BE DESCRIPTIVE OF THE COURTYARD. Of course, Mark was writing to northern Aramaic speaking Christians who were not familiar with Jerusalem or the southern dialect and many if not most of whom were probably not Jews. That???s why he even has to translate some of Jesus??? spoken dialect into northern Aramaic. Where does it say anything about a Roman audience? To assume a Roman audience is circular reasoning. Anyway, why not write in Latin for a Roman audience? Since Mark was writing to a northern Aramaic speaking audience many of whom were probably not Jews, it would be natural for him to clearly explain about times and places. Mark 15:42 in the Peshitta say ???...on Friday evening which is before the Sabbath...??? means that it was Friday evening before sundown. Friday evening after sundown IS already the Sabbath. This is just a clear statement that he took action on Friday before the Sabbath had started not an explanation of the Sabbath. In John 20:24 gives Thomas??? name as ??? [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0mw0t[/font] (Tooma) who was called [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0m0t[/font] (Tama) the twin...??? This is a word play on his name, not a repeat of the name. In John 20:16 the Peshitta has ???... and said to him in Hebrew Rabbuli ( [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Ylwbr[/font] ) which means Teacher ( [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0nplm[/font] )....??? APPARENTLY JOHN BELIEVED ARAMAIC SPEAKING READERS MAY NOT KNOW HEBREW SINCE THEY ARE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES BUT WANTED TO QUOTE MARYAM EXACTLY. As for the last comment, I don???t know why Zorba chosen certain Greek words to translate Luke???s Aramaic text. Otto - judge - 01-03-2005 Firstly thanks for the reply. :-) ograabe Wrote:In John 20:16 the Peshitta has ???... and said to him in Hebrew Rabbuli ( [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Ylwbr[/font] ) which means Teacher ( [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0nplm[/font] )....??? APPARENTLY JOHN BELIEVED ARAMAIC SPEAKING READERS MAY NOT KNOW HEBREW SINCE THEY ARE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES BUT WANTED TO QUOTE MARYAM EXACTLY. I received a couple of responses to this they are. Quote:So Mary spoke this apparent Aramaic word in Hebrew now, right? Did she actually speak in Hebrew or was it just coincidentally this one word? And what Hebrew form is this?? and Quote: John doesn't give it (Mary's response) in Hebrew; ...... it's Aramaic. Rabuni, in fact, is apparently an early form of the word in Palestinian Aramaic, as it's preserved also in some of the (Aramaic) Fragment Targums to the Pentateuch, e.g., fragment D to Gen. 44:18, where it's found twice. (Later targums like Onkelos have riboni (Gen. 33:11) or ribonana' (Gen. 23:6) which, if I remember correctly, are generally considered artificial vocalizations from the (Babylonian?) rabbinic academies.) any thoughts? - judge - 01-03-2005 ograabe Wrote:In John 20:24 gives Thomas??? name as ??? [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0mw0t[/font] (Tooma) who was called [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0m0t[/font] (Tama) the twin...??? This is a word play on his name, not a repeat of the name. Hi again I received the following response. Quote:or to be a little more compromising for pronunciation, tauma called tama. "Thomas" means "twin". In 4Q318, an astrological text in Aramaic from Qumran, the name for Gemini was twmy) or tumia, which is seen by the editor of the text, when written fully, to be t)wmy) or taumia. And the Hebrew of Gen 38:27 talks of twins, t)wmym (-ym indicating masculine plural). Any thoughts anyone? - judge - 01-03-2005 ograabe Wrote:Mark 15:42 in the Peshitta say ???...on Friday evening which is before the Sabbath...??? means that it was Friday evening before sundown. Friday evening after sundown IS already the Sabbath. This is just a clear statement that he took action on Friday before the Sabbath had started not an explanation of the Sabbath. Hi yet again. i received the following reply. Quote:There is no term "Friday", just "preparation" (rwbt), and there is no indication of "before evening" (this is just judge's belief that the day before the Shabbat ended with evening), just the "evening of preparation", rm$) d(rwb), but this is as meaningful writing "Friday, the day before Saturday" to someone who knows the order of days. - Paul Younan - 01-04-2005 judge Wrote:ograabe Wrote:Mark 15:42 in the Peshitta say ???...on Friday evening which is before the Sabbath...??? means that it was Friday evening before sundown. Friday evening after sundown IS already the Sabbath. This is just a clear statement that he took action on Friday before the Sabbath had started not an explanation of the Sabbath. Shlama Akhi Michael, This person obviously has no clue what they are talking about. "Arubta" (the Christian, and I stress *Christian*, word for "Friday") means "setting of the sun". It marks the day on which Meshikha was crucified and the sun was darkened. The word does *not* mean "preparation." This person is an imbecile, probably a 14-year old who is doing a "google" search for whatever he/she can find on Aramaic, and who wants to try and impress you. The word is derived from the old Aramaic/Hebrew root "Ereb", which means "to set" as in the sun setting in the horizon. Don't bother with uneducated idiots like this. <!-- s ![]() ![]() ![]() - peshitta_enthusiast - 01-04-2005 Wow talk about laying the smackdown, it is definitely worth it to observe here rather than talk as I learn so much. Just a quick question - was "Arubta" used for Friday before Yeshua's death? Is it used as "setting of the sun" to indicate that the 7th day was to come? - Paul Younan - 01-04-2005 peshitta_enthusiast Wrote:Wow talk about laying the smackdown, it is definitely worth it to observe here rather than talk as I learn so much. Shlama Akhi Chris, Non-Christian Semites use the number as the name of the day: (First-day, second-day.....sixth-day, seventh-day) Aramaic-speaking Christians renamed the "sixth-day" from "Yoma Shtaa" to "Arubtha", because the sun was darkened on that day when Meshikha was crucified. See, we have a funny list of names for the week: (1) Khad b'Shabba (first-of-seven) (2) Treyn b'Shabba (second-of-seven) (3) Tlatha b'Shabba (third-of-seven) (4) Arbaa b'Shabba (fourth-of-seven) (5) Khamsha b'Shabba (five-of-seven) (6) Arubtha (setting) (7) Shabtha (seventh) See how one sticks out? Whereas the Jewish names of the days are as follows: (1) Yom Rishon (first day) (2) Yom Sheni (second day) (3) Yom Shlishi (third day) (4) Yom Arevi (fourth day) (5) Yom Khamishi (fifth day) (6) Yom Shishi (sixth day) (7) Shabbath (seventh) The bottom line is that the word "Arubta" has nothing to do etimologically with "preparation", as the wannabe-scholar who is arguing with Michael is trying to imply. <!-- s:mad: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/mad.gif" alt=":mad:" title="Mad" /><!-- s:mad: --> - peshitta_enthusiast - 01-05-2005 Thanks bro <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: --> |