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Full Version: John 18: 19 - 23
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1. The Forum is back up!  Hooray!
I don't know if anyone else couldn't get back onto the Forum.  I even E-Mailed MyBB.
So nice to see the Forum again.

2. On to Bidness:

I don't think I  Posted on this here but I had reason to re-visit this recently and it might be worth bouncing it off of those more knowledgeable than yours truly:

John 18: 19 - 23 (RSV):

[19] The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching.
[20] Jesus answered him, "I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly.
[21] Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me, what I said to them; they know what I said."
[22] When he had said this, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, "Is that how you answer the high priest?"
[23] Jesus answered him, "If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?"

This Passage reads a little awkward and a little strange to me and I wonder if it reads that way to others.
Some time ago, I began looking at variations on this to see if the awkwardness could be moderated.

A. Verse 19 appears to be a Summary of sorts.  Of course, it could be expanded - "What about this particular Teaching of yours...?" and so on.  The verse is short.  If the verse had been expanded, verse 20 would be fine.

B. Verse 20 reads as an answer to the question, if only it occurred in a better position.

Let's swap verses:

[19] The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. 
[21] "Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me, what I said to them; they know what I said."

[22] When he had said this, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, "Is that how you answer the high priest?" 

This reads a little better if a little more volatile.  The answer in verse 21 is more edgy and the response of the "Officer" becomes more in line with someone who would defend the High Priest against someone who may be perceived as being "Seditious".

C. This leaves 2 verses that begin with "Jesus answered..."  In fact, it reads very "smooth" if the 2 verses are combined.

[23] Jesus answered him, "If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?" 
[Add Verse 20 here:] "I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly.

Does the Passage read "Smoother" now?:

[19] The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. 
[21] "Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me, what I said to them; they know what I said."
[22] When he had said this, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, "Is that how you answer the high priest?"
[23] Jesus answered him, "If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?  
[20] I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly."

This aligns quite nicely.  Jesus answers the "Officer" who interrupted Jesus and then finishes his answer to the High Priest.
***
There is even a reason for possibly rearranging this Passage: *IF* it were to be read in this manner, then Jesus has taught openly and the Jews understood his Meaning.  However, "I have said nothing secretly" contradicts the Synoptics as to the Hiding of Jesus' Teaching, "...lest they understand".

*IF* this rearranging had been done, it would have been done VERY early, before it was translated to...ummm...other languages.  I may yet edit this to include PY's Translation - it goes to Intentionality again, of John over and against Mark.

Does this make sense to anyone?
Is there any evidence that something like this was attempted here?

Thanx, ALL!!!

CW
No replies yet so let me ask it a different manner:
Does the Revised John 18: 19 - 23 Passage READ better as, for example, Poetry, than it is constructed now?
It certainly Flows better, to me, than what is there now.

Does it "Flow" more smoothly in the Aramaic as re-arranged or in fact, does it flow better as is?

CW