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There is no forum about Old Testament so my apologies if there's another place where I can post this.  For a while now I've been looking for other ancient manuscripts that translate the OT.  When I came across information about the Syriac I was very intrigued but I could not locate an interlinear version.  Even in my limited understanding of the language I wanted to see what I could find in the Ambrosianus manuscript and was painstakingly looking through the lexicons.

Then Thirdwoe clued me into the online resource at cal1.cn.huc.edu and wow, what a great find.  So I've been able to quickly finish what I started.  Would people be willing to look over my efforts and give me some thoughts and corrections?  Thanks.



ܟܕ:
24
ܫܲܒ̣ܥܝܼܢ
seventy
ܫܵܒ̣ܘܿܥܝܼ̈ܢ
weeks
ܢܸܬ̇ܬ̇ܢܝܼܚܘܼܢ
are placed/imposed upon
ܥܲܠ
about/concerning
ܥܲܡܵܟ
people/nation
ܘܥܲܠ
and about/concerning
ܩܪܝܼܬ̣ܵܐ
capital city
ܕܩܘܼܕܼܫܵܟ
of holiness
: ܠܡܸܫܠܲܡ
and to complete
ܚܵܘ̈ܒܹ̇ܐ
debt/sin
ܘܲܠܡܸܓܡܲܪ
and to destroy
ܚܛܵܗܹ̈ܐ:
sin
ܠܫܘܼܒ̣ܩܵܢ
to forgive
ܥܵܘܼܠܵܐ:
crime/injustice
ܘܲܠܡܲܝܬܵܝܘܼ
and to bring
ܙܸܕܼܩܵܐ
that which is proper or right
ܕܡ̣ܢ
which is from
ܥܵܠܲܡ
eternity
ܘܲܠܡܸܫܠܲܡ
and to fulfill
ܚܸܙܘܵܐ
the prophetic vision
ܘܲܢܒ̣ܝܹ̈ܐ:
and the Prophets
ܘܠܲܡܫܝܼܚܵܐ
and to anoint
ܩܕܼܘܿܫ
holy
ܩܘܼܕܼܫ̈ܝܼܢ.
holies(ie. holiest place)


ܟܗ
25
ܘܬܸܕܲܥ
And know
ܘܬܸܣܬܲܟܲܠ:
also understand
ܡ̣ܢ
from
ܡܲܦܩܵܢܵܗ̇
the going out/exiting
ܕܡܸܠܬ̣ܵܐ
the word/promise
ܠܡܸܗܦܲܟ
to return
ܘܠܲܡܒܲܢܵܝܘܼ
and to build/rebuild
ܠܐܘܿܪܸܫܠܸܡ:
Jerusalem
ܘܲܠܡܹܐܬ̣ܵܐ
until the coming/reach the time of
ܡܫܝܼܚܵܐ
anointed one
ܡܲܠܟܵܐ:
king/ruler
ܫܵܒ̣ܘܿܥܹ̈ܐ
weeks
ܫܲܒ̣ܥܵܐ:
seven
ܘܫܵܒ̣ܘܿܥܹ̈ܐ
and weeks
ܫܬ̇ܝܼܢ
sixty
ܘܲܬ̣ܪܹܝܢ:
and two
ܢܸܗܦܘܿܟ
be changed/returned
ܘܢܸܒ̣ܢܸܐ
and rebuilt
ܠܐܘܿܪܸܫܠܸܡ
for Jerusalem
ܫܘܼܩܹ̈ܝܗ̇
street/market/public square
ܘܲܦܠܵܛܵـ̈ـܘܵܬ̣ܵܗ̇:
also open place/plaza
ܠܫܘܼܠܵܡ
to the end of a season
ܙܲܒ̣ܢܹ̈ܐ.
stretch of time

ܟܘ
26
ܘܒ̣ܵܬܲܪ
And after
ܫܵܒ̣ܘܿܥܹ̈ܐ
weeks
ܫܬ̇ܝܼܢ
sixty
ܘܲܬ̣ܪܹܝܢ
and two
ܢܸܬ̣ܩ̄ܛܲܠ
will be killed/slaughtered
ܡܫܝܼܚܵܐ
anointed one
ܘܠܵܐ
and then not
ܐܝܼܬ̣
existing
ܠܵܗ̇:
for
ܘܲܩܪܝܼܬ̣ܵܐ
also the city
ܕܩܘܼܕܼܫܵܐ
of holiness
ܬܸܬ̣ܚܲܒܲܠ
will perish/be destroyed
ܥܲܡ
at the time of those who are governed by/belong to
ܡܲܠܟܵܐ
king/ruler/emperor/caliph
ܕܐܵܬܹ̇ܐ:
who is to come
ܘܚܲܪܬ̣ܵܗ̇
also the end
ܒܲܓ̣ܪܘܼܦܝܵܐ:
along with a flood
ܘܲܥܕܲܡܵܐ
and until
ܠܚܲܪܬ̣ܵܐ
to the end
ܕܲܩܪܵܒ̣ܵܐ
war/battles
ܕܦܵܣܝܼ̈ܩܵܬ̣ܵܐ
decreed/time of judgement
ܕܲܚܒ̣ܵܠܵܐ.
damage/ruination

ܟܙ:
27
ܘܲܢܥܲܫܸܢ
And to be made strong/to fortify
ܕܝܼܵܬܹܩܹܐ
treaty/covenant
ܠܣܲܓ̇ܝܼ̈ܐܹܐ:
for the many
ܫܵܒ̣ܘܿܥܵܐ
for week
ܚܲܕܼ
one
ܘܦܸܠܓܘܼܬ̣
and half
ܫܵܒ̣ܘܿܥܵܐ:
week
ܘܲܢܒܲܛܸܠ
and to stop/cease
ܕܸܒ̣ܚ̱ܬ̣ܵܐ
sacrifice
ܘܩܘܼܪܒܵܢܵܐ:
and offering
ܘܥܲܠ
and concerning
ܟܸܢܦܹܝ̈ܗ̇
wing/bosom/pinnacle
ܕܛܲܢܦܘܼܬ̣ܵܐ
of abomination/impurity
ܚܒ̣ܵܠܵܐ:
have that which is harmful
ܥܕܲܡܵܐ
until
ܠܲܓ̣ܡܘܼܪܝܵܐ
the completion
ܕܦܵܣܝܼ̈ܩܵܬ̣ܵܐ
concerning the judgement
ܬܸܬ̇ܢܝܼܚ
reaching its end
ܥܲܠ
it will be according to
ܚܒ̣ܵܠܵܐ.
that which is harmful
In the Aramaic, the whole passage is real clear as to who is in view, and what it is speaking of, is it not? Smile

Also, in vs 24 there, if I'm not mistaken, it should read "and the Prophets" as it looks to be in the plural there. If so, I would render this portion below like this, and ask the question: Who came to do that? Smile

ܘܲܠܡܸܫܠܲܡ
and to fulfill
ܚܸܙܘܵܐ
the vision
ܘܲܢܒ̣ܝܹ̈ܐ:
and the prophets
Yes, that's true. Thanks for the correction.

This Aramaic text is extremely close but not exactly the same as the Masoretic Hebrew. The phrase that you point out is one of those differences. In Aramaic it says one of the reasons is to "fulfill the vision and the prophets". In the Masoretic the reason is to "seal up the vision and the prophet". That is quite the difference in intent. The Aramaic makes much more sense.

In the next verse (v 25), the Aramaic mentions Jerusalem twice but the Masoretic specifies it just once. Also, the Aramaic makes no mention of the walls but instead describes an open space/plaza. The Masoretic specifically mentions the rebuilding taking place in "troubled times" but the Aramaic lacks that adjective.

Verse 26 in the Aramaic gives a much clearer idea about the anointed's death leading to him "not existing". Although the Masoretic can also be interpreted that way, there is much more difficulty.

But the biggest reason I was interested was to see how the various time periods are laid out. The Aramaic matches the structure exactly as in the Hebrew. I guess that's not really surprising since the languages are closely related. Nonetheless, it is an important point. Ever since the KJV in English came out with it's decision on where to place the punctuation and therefore how to group the time periods, very dogmatic interpretations have been based on this. However, the Hebrew and the Aramaic can group the time periods in a different way. The KJV is not consistent with itself as can be clearly shown.

In v25, the KJV combines the 7 weeks with 62 weeks and clearly specifies a group of 69 weeks. However, the original languages do not have punctuation so this is an artificial interpretation. To be consistent with the text, the KJV should also do the same with v27 and combine the 1 week with the 1/2 week to make a group of 1 1/2 weeks since the same grammatical structure exists there too. But no one will do this since they know that the entire number of weeks have to add up to 70 weeks.
Can someone help me with an aramaic language question?

Using this site: cal1.cn.huc.edu
At the start of Dan 9:24, it reads:
ܒܥܝܢ ܫܒܘ̈ܥܝܢ ܢܬܬܢܝܚܘܢ ܥܠ

The word "ܢܬܬܢܝܚܘܢ " links to this:
http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/getlex.php?coord=...924&word=2
This word has 3 letters "nwh"

But the word in the passage has many more letters. Looking for that complete word in the lexicon does not find anything.

Can someone explain to me how that works?
Jedi, 

You can cut and paste the whole word as it appears in the text ܢܬܬܢܝܚܘܢ  into the window at the link below, to get all the details. I could tell you about it, but, it's more fun to find the treasures yourself. I showed you were to dig and what tool to use though. Smile

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/


Shlama
Yes, I know about the site. But there is no word like that. There is no word that even begins with the first letters. That's the problem.
The OT Peshitta is a translation of the Hebrew OT. Vocalizations of the C stem with doubled nun are erroneous Hebraisms. Click on the Lexeme tab. Also, it is interesting to note the word in Rev 6:11 and 14:13
I'm not seeing where you are getting this information from.  The link you gave says "NO SEARCH RESULTS FOUND!" when I input the word that I specified.

Also, if I understand it correctly, there is no "double nun" in the word.  It's a double taw.

The reason why I'm interested in this is that this same spot in the Masoretic is   נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ
which is translated as "determined, decreed".  It's the only time the word appears in the Hebrew OT and causes problems for translators.  In other Hebrew documents the word is usually translated "to cut off, divide".  This is much different from what the Aramaic is implying.

However, the C stem can mean "to place down, impose" so that is similar to the Hebrew meaning "decreed".

Ok, looking at it further, the link above is tied to NT uses of the form of the word.  That form doesn't actually occur in the manuscripts (2:12829) - that's why it can't find results.  However, the very closely related form (2:12813) is in Rev 6:11 and Rev 14:13 which you listed.
When I put the word in the window at the link I provided, it works fine. Not sure why it wont work for you. instances of a double noon is a general instance to note. Not in this word. The Aramaic word here can have the meaning "to put off".

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/index.php

.
Search without diacritics. If you have tried once with diacritics and type it again without, chances are that your browser adds the vowelmarks automatically. In that case one has to reset the browser, pick another browser or cheat it with copy+paste. Make sure the second radio-button is selected — the one labelled "Syriac word".

I am a noob at this language so take this with a grain of salt, but the way I parse it:
ܢܬܬܢܝܚܘܢ

After realizing that it is a verb, the initial nun says it's imperfective aspect. The -un suffix says 3rd person masculine plural.
Then the double taw indicates the ettaphal verb pattern, which grammars describe as causative and as reflexive, ingressive or mediopassive. I look forward to hearing the result of you wordstudy if you can make the search work.
Another very cool thing I just came across regarding Daniel 9:27. Almost all translations can not decide on what the middle of the verse is talking about

KJV: and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate
ESV: And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate
NASB: and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate

They can't figure out what the Hebrew word is referring to: כְּנַ֤ף or "wings" (Strong's #3671)
In the Aramaic the word is ܟܢ̈ܦܝܗܿ which also means "wing". But the interesting thing is that the exact same word shows up in the New Testament in Matthew 4:5. This is where the Accuser takes Jesus to the top of the "pinnacle" of the temple. Both passages talking about the temple and both using the same word.

The Aramaic in Daniel seems to be saying that placed on top or over the pinnacle of the temple will be something impure that is destructive/harmful. You come across most teachers saying that there will be some statue put inside the temple but this says something quite different.
The Roman General Titus is said to have placed a graven image of an idol on top of one of the wings of the Temple when Jerusalem was taken.
Yes, the preterists try to make the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple the completion of Daniel 9. According to Josephus Titus didn't even get to see inside the Holy of Holies until the entire temple complex was already engulfed in flames. There was just looting no time for idol worship.

Only after the whole place was burnt to the ground do they start sacrificing to their gods.
Jos 6.6.1 "1. AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple (24) and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator (25) with the greatest acclamations of joy."

Notice they set their poles against the remaining stone wall. There were no high towers of the temple left for them to desecrate.

Interestingly here's another clue there was a language barrier between the Latin Romans and the Aramaic Jews
Jos.6.2 "So Titus charged his soldiers to restrain their rage, and to let their darts alone, and appointed an interpreter between them"







I'm coming to the realization that the 70 Weeks is a very violent prophecy.  But it's not immediately obvious in the English.  It should be nicknamed the "chopping prophecy" because there are a lot of allusions to cutting things into pieces.  Every time something is decreed or judgment is determined, it's from a root word meaning "to cut".

v24  70 weeks are determined or "chopped up" for the Jewish people
v26 the anointed one is "cut off"
v26b for the whole period of the the war of Jerusalem, desolation is determined (from a root word "to cut)
v27 at the end of the final 7 years, the determined (again from "to cut") judgement is given to the destroyers

All of the above are in the Hebrew passage.  The Aramaic uses an equivalent word that also means "decree" and "to chop" v26b and v27.  But interestingly the Aramiac word in v24 does not come from this root at all.  The idea there is that the 70 Weeks are being imposed or laid down onto the people.  It's a fascinating difference between the texts.
Here's another fascinating word study I've come across and could use someone's help with.

The very last word in Dan9:27 is ܚܒܿܠܐ
Is this word singular or plural?  According to this dukhrana link you can only tell by the point markings.  However I'm sure the original text did not include any of those markings.
http://www.dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.p...a&size=125%

In context it is this:
...up until the decreed extinction/end to be imposed upon/above the ܚܒܿܠܐ


According to the text at the CAL website, the word is defined as "harmful".  Investigating further, it is much more forceful than that.  It can be used as "destroyer", "defiler".  But you have click on the J.Payne Smith link to get a definition that was not included: birthpangs, pains of death, pangs of fear.

This immediately brought Matthew 24 to mind.  And sure enough, the Aramaic passage uses the same word there.  Jesus is discussing "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"  Matt 24:3.  After his list of signs He says "All these are but the beginning of the birth pains." Matt 24:8.

Is this a direct reference to Daniel 9?  I don't think I've ever heard anyone point this out.  And why would they since Daniel 9 is read in Hebrew and Matthew is read in Greek.  Only by looking at the two passages in Aramaic is the similar word noticed.

That's why I'd like to know if the word in Daniel can be determined to be either singular or plural.
Why would the Latin speaking Romans and the Aramaic speaking Jews need an interpreter, since we are told by some of these Greek textual critics that everyone spoke Greek at the time. : )

On what Josephus says was the case, he may or may not be correct about that. Unfortunately we can't take everything that he says with absolute certainty. There may indeed have been something put up there.

For instance what is Mshikha speaking of in Mark 13:14? Break that verse down and see what is said there. Pretty interesting.

I wonder if you think it's possible that what happened with Antiochus IV could be what the prophecy in Daniel is speaking of, and that perhaps what happened with the Romans as well may be what some call a double fulfillment.

I'll take a look at the other thing in Daniel 9:27 a bit later. Thanks for the discussions.

.

In the meantime, look at Daniel 11:31, which might provide some answers. I haven't looked at the Peshitta OT yet, but here is how it is rendered in the English Standard Version.

"Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate."

Look at Mark 13:14 and see if there is anything relating to this in the Aramaic text. Pay special attention to the word ܐܬܐ with its possible meanings.

Shlama

.

Also, compare Mark 13:14 with what is recorded in Luke 21:20-21. It is a key to unlock the mystery.



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