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Full Version: Yah, contracted from YHWH--In the Peshitta?
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Yah, contracted form of YHWH occurs 48 times in the Hebrew OT?
Does this form occur in these 48 places in the Peshitta as well?
Please give the 48 references.
If you give some Scripture, I'll look it up in my interlinear of the Peshitta Psalms. The Aramaic text leaves off the heh (equivalent to "H") in Yah, so "Lord YHWH" in Aramaic is more accurately transliterated as MarYa instead of MarYah. In Psalms 68:4 at least, the Hebrew Yah is translated MarYa.
Here is a link to the 48 passages that contain Yah, the contracted form of YHWH: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_3050.htm
Thanks, so mostly in the Psalms looks like, I'll check on the instances in Exodus and in Isaiah, and maybe Dylan can check the Psalm vs.
Ok...so in the Exodus verses, The Peshitta text has MarYa, and in the Isaiah verses it has MarYa...and in Isaiah 38:11 there is only one instance of MarYa there, rather than the two instances of Yah seen in the Hebrew Masoretic text. The Greek Septuagint renders it there as Theos (God), and also only one instance as well is given, while for the Latin Vulgate, it has Dominum Deum (The Lord God) there.

Shlama
Chuck
Thank you Third Woe.
Do you have any idea what might account for these variances between translations?
When a Jew read the scriptures, wherever he would find "YHWH", he would read "Adonai" (Lord). It is common practice in translations (including the ancient Jewish ones, Aramaic Targums and Greek LXX) to replace YHWH and YH with a substitute. In the LXX, this is kurios (Lord), in the Peshitta (which technically is a Christian Targum) it is Maryah, in the English, this is known as LORD. This is so because the Name YHWH was not supposed to be spoken out loud according to Jewish tradition.

If we find "Adonai YHWH" or "YHWH Adonai" in the Hebrew, it was read out aloud as just Adonai. This practice is reflected in Luke 4:18, where Jesus is quoting Isaiah 61:1, but reads it as "The Spirit of the Lord (kurios / Maryah) is upon me", not "The Spirit of the Lord YHWH (Adonai YHWH) is upon me". It was therefore common in the LXX (and some Targums) to replace this with just the substitute, as else you would have "Lord Lord" in the translation. In such instances, the Peshitta uses "Maryah Elaha", in English it is sometimes written as "Lord GOD", in the Latin, it is "Dominum Deum".

The "special cases" are treated differently in the different translations, as they simply don't exactly fit the established rules. In Isaiah 12:2, 26:4, we find YH YHWH, in Isaiah 38:11 YH YH.

Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God [el] is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for YH YHWH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Hebrew: YH YHWH
LXX: Kurios
Peshitta: Maryah
Vulgata: Dominus Deus (Nova Vulgata: Dominus)

Isaiah 26:4
Trust ye in YHWH for ever: for in YH YHWH is everlasting strength:
Hebrew: 1) YHWH 2) YH YHWH
LXX: 1) Kurios 2) Theos
Peshitta: 1) Maryah 2) Maryah Elaha
Vulgata: 1) Domino (Nova Vulgata: Dominum) 2) Domino Deo (Nova Vulgata: Dominus)

Isaiah 38:11
I said, I shall not see YH YH in the land of the living: I shall behold man no more with the inhabitants of the world.
Hebrew: YH YH
LXX: Theos
Peshitta: Maryah
Vulgata: Dominum Dominum (Nova Vulgata: Dominum Deum)

__________
Isaiah 7:7
Thus saith the Lord GOD,
Hebrew: Adonai YHWH
LXX: Kurios
Peshitta: Maryah Elaha
Vulgata: Dominus Deus

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord [Adonai] YHWH is upon me; because YHWH hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
Hebrew: 1) Adonai YHWH 2) YHWH
LXX: 1) Kurios 2) missing (He)
Peshitta: 1) Maryah Elaha 2) Maryah
Vulgata: 1) Domini (Nova Vulgata: Domini Dei) 2) Dominus (Nova Vulgata: Dominus)
Thank you Andrej.
Yes, in the Peshitta the Father is very respectfully called mrya. Additionally, the shortened version ("Yah") is found throughout the Aramaic in wordplay.

For example, Matthew 6:9-13 has the famous prayer ?Our Father?. In Catholic school we were required to recite this prayer in English constantly; it?s still permanently ingrained in my mind (I'm grateful for that). I don't think I ever learned the name of our Creator though in Catholic school. But in Aramaic?

Notice the first words of the Our Father prayer have a wordplay for the Father?s name, abun dbShmya nThqdSh Shmk (?Our Father who is in heaven, your name will be holy.?) So in Aramaic the holy name is spoken right there in the wordplay of Shmya, which is like saying ?name Yah?.

And this same kind of Aramaic wordplay is found in several other key places that discuss the Father?s name and the Messiah's name?
  • Matthew 7:21 ? Yahshua explains that not all who call him mry (?my lord?) enter lmlkuTha dShmya (?to the kingdom of heaven?). Immediately afterwards he gives the parable of the man who builds his house on ShuEaa (?stone?), which is a natural wordplay for yShuEa (?Yahshua?).
  • Matthew 21:9 ? before the gates of Jerusalem, the crowds are calling out to Yahshua, ?Hosanna to the son of David. Blessed is he who comes bShmh dmrya (?in His name, of the Lord?), Hosanna in the highest!? See also Mark 11:9, John 12:13. And incidentally, the phrase here in Matthew 21:9 dmrya auShEana (?of the Lord, Hosanna?) is also a letter-puzzle for ana dmra yShuEa (?I am of the lord, Yahshua?).
  • Matthew 23:39 ? Yahshua says to pharisees & scribes, ?For I say to you that you will not see me from now on, until you have said, ?Blessed is he who comes bShmh dmrya (?in His name, of the Lord?).
  • John 3:18 ? ?He who believes in him is not judged. And he who does not believe is already judged, that not he believes bShmh dyKhydya (?in his name, of the unique one?), the son of Alha."
  • John 10:25 ? Yahshua explains, ?I have told you and you do not believe. And the works that I do, ana bShmh daby hnun (?I in His name, of my Father. They??) testify regarding me.
  • John 14:13-14 ? ?And whatever you ask bShmy aEabd[i] (?in my name, will work?) to you that will be glorified the Father in His son. And if you ask me [i]bShmy ana? (?in my name, I?) will work?.
  • John 14:26 ? ?And it, the Redeemer Spirit of Holiness, it that sends my Father bShmy hu (?in my name, it?) will teach you anything.?
  • John 16:24 ? ?Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive so that your joy will be mShmlya (?full?).?
  • John 17:11 ? ?Holy Father, guard them in your name, it dyhbTh (?that you gave?) to me??. Same wordplay repeats in the next verse at John 17:12.
  • John 20:31 ? ?And also these were written that you are believing that Yahshua is mShyKha (?messiah?), His son, of Alha, and when you are believing, will be to you bShmh Khya (?in his name life?), he to a world/age.?
The above list is representative. There are many other places where the name is preserved through Aramaic wordplay that jumps off the page when spoken, with the primary focus being on the 10th letter, pronounced yahd.
Erm... /ya/ is simply very common in Aramaic. It ends every gentillic, it ends every masculine emphatic plural in older dialects, it begins certain Aphel verbal forms, it appears all over the place.

Those "examples" you cite aren't the kind of wordplay that was understood as wordplay in ancient times. If we were discussing rootplay or some sort of acrostic that would be one thing, but this is simply cherry-picked from a random distribution, and some of them don't even represent the sound /ya/. Undecided

Also -- and I must preface this in that it is a pet peeve of mine -- there is zero documentary evidence that Jesus' name was "Yahshua" (or Yahushua or Yahusha or several other variants that some insist upon). In Hebrew it was Yehoshua in Aramaic it was Yeshua or Y'shua (the apostrophe representing shwa). There was no open vowel in the initial syllable. To do so would violate very well-studied and established conventions.

Peace,
-Steve
Steve,
Any idea why The Little Red Peshitta that I bought a few years back from one of the Assyrian churches here in Chicago has the vowel signs such under that it reads Isho?
This <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/showproduct.aspx?isbn=978-1-61143-896-3">http://www.gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/sh ... 1143-896-3</a><!-- m --> will probably answer the question why the vowels for Isho are used in Eastern Aramaic.
Does anybody have any familiarity with this "Syriac Masora"? Is this manuscript only available from Gorgias? Could a copy of this Masora be obtained from other sources too, maybe at a more reasonable price?
SteveCaruso Wrote:Erm... /ya/ is simply very common in Aramaic. It ends every gentillic, it ends every masculine emphatic plural in older dialects, it begins certain Aphel verbal forms, it appears all over the place.

Those "examples" you cite aren't the kind of wordplay that was understood as wordplay in ancient times. If we were discussing rootplay or some sort of acrostic that would be one thing, but this is simply cherry-picked from a random distribution, and some of them don't even represent the sound /ya/. Undecided

Also -- and I must preface this in that it is a pet peeve of mine -- there is zero documentary evidence that Jesus' name was "Yahshua" (or Yahushua or Yahusha or several other variants that some insist upon). In Hebrew it was Yehoshua in Aramaic it was Yeshua or Y'shua (the apostrophe representing shwa). There was no open vowel in the initial syllable. To do so would violate very well-studied and established conventions.

Peace,
-Steve

Yes, thank you, I think your point is the obvious one, and I hope I didn?t overstate mine to suggest those potential wordplays were grandiose on the textual face. To the contrary, they are subtle, like the smallest of the 22 letters is subtle, often even overlooked (like the famous yod-shin combination in Estrangelo). But if Y?Shua or an apostle is discussing the Father?s name in the gospel, and they are speaking the sound ?yah?, might that be something that perks your ears? A sign of something deeper? In the Hebrew tradition, every letter is meaningful in the writing of a faithful witness.

But you?re right that ?ya? and ?yh? are common in the language and in the gospel, which means I?ll have a challenge to prove anything here beyond the obvious. Let?s begin with every instance in the first chapter of Mark where the prefix or suffix ?yh? or ?ya? appears:
  • ? 1:2 ? baShEaya nbya (?in Isaiah the prophet?)
    ? 1:5 ? dyhud (?of Judea?)
    ? 1:6 ? ayThyh (?having (plural)?)
    ? 1:7 ? mny hu (?from me, he?)
    ? 1:8 ? bmya hu (?in water, he?)
    ? 1:10 ? mya (?water?)
    ? 1:10 ? Shmya (?heaven?)
    ? 1:11 ? Shmya (?heaven?)
    ? 1:22 ? spryhun (?their scribes)
    ? 1:24 ? nTsrya (?Nazarene?)
    ? 1:27 ? hy hda (?is this?)
    ? 1:30 ? rmya (?ill?)
    ? 1:30 ? Ealya (?upon her?)
    ? 1:38 ? lqurya (?to the villages?)
    ? 1:45 ? glyayTh (?openly?)

And here are the examples in order for Mark Chapter 2, ?Many - paralytic ? paralytic ? paralytic - to the paralytic - to the paralytic ? many - and sinners - many ? sinners - and sinners - the physician - to the sinners - the old - Lord - gives.? On the face of things, we only see lots of examples. But one might also wonder about the possibility of a message between the lines, especially given all the possible interpretations.

Here?s the next chapter, Mark 3 in order, ?the sick - against him so that ? his disciples go ? many ? they will press in on him ? many ? will reveal him ? the sick ? the zealot ? and Judas ? his possessions unless ?sons of mankind.?

Mark 4 in order, ?my truth being ? large ? gives ? and gives ? they asked him ? give ? to those outside ? their sins ? persecutions ? worries ? become ? and they give ? in secret ? will be given ? in the night ?death ? the sign ? will be his blood ? will compare him ? small ? and becomes - silver coins ? like this.?

Some see meaning; others see nothing. Some, like myself, see possibility.

Or what about gematria? I would encourage taking a moment to really ponder the examples from my original post in their context? John 17:11 is a nice one ? ?Holy Father, guard them in your name, hu d yhbTh ly (?it that you gave to me?).? Aramaic is the language, the first face with which we interact. Some also see another face - the letters' numbers point to YHVH Alha? dyh = 19 (significant because aleph (1) + lamed (12) + hey (5) + aleph (1) = 19 (Alha)). Then bThly = 46 (significant because in base 10 reduction math both answers are 10 (as in the 10th letter yod)). It?s subtle -- but you can find the pattern repeated in the gospel-- start by noticing all the yod-pairings when Yahshua speaks of the Father's name and his own name: one for the Father, and one for Y'Shua. Which connections are just coincidences? Shall I prepare a statistical analysis? I think we see what we?re given to see in our languages, facially and otherwise.

The possibility of 'ah' in Y'Shua troubles a man? Interesting pet peeve man <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink --> The letters of the messiah?s name are so meaningful and dynamic, individually and combined, yod-shin-vav-ayin. For starters his name equals 53, just like mShyKha=53. Some say the ayin is silent in Y'Shua (feel the importance of that silent last letter in this moment - breathe the sounds of all four letters, breathe in ?eee?, breathe out ?shhh?, breathe in ?whooo?, and then... you're smiling again, yes you). It?s also okay to pronounce the ayin (awesome for its elevating power in spoken word). Some say the sound between yod and shin was ?ah? like Yah and others say ?eh? like yes! I prefer personally to speak in terms of possibilities rather than certainties. I think you quipped (Socratic-method?) that there is ?zero documentary evidence? for ?ah?. Off limits according to ?well- studied and established conventions?? I wonder about that man, and I appreciate the question. I find from Hebrew & Aramaic bible study (and logic), that it is quite defensible to speak the sound Yah in yShuEa. It comes naturally from a strong yod pronunciation, a yod independently measurable before the shin. The 'ah' sound was also spoken consistently in Hebrew names in honor of Yah. See for example the names in Yahshua?s lineage in Matthew 1 (e.g., abya).

If a tradition infallibly prohibits emphasizing a strong yod pronunciation in the name Y?Shua, is the tradition sound? Or, have we learned from historical precedents where a ruling tradition prevents people from speaking the holy name?

Or, imagine a little boy approaches the messiah Y'Shua and pronounces his name with an ?ah? sound, just like he learned from his parents to pronounce at times a strong ?yod?, an independent letter. Would the messiah accept the honor or say, tlya la Khd kThybTha Khua Shmy Eam zEaq hna (?Boy, not one written thing shows my name with this sound.?)

Or, consider the example of king dvyd (?David?). Can the suffix of his name dvyd be pronounced ?yod? ? yes, it can. And it is meaningful to do so if your language (such as math and Hebrew) makes it meaningful. For example, dv = 10; and yd is the sound of the 10th letter. So here is another subtle yod-yod connection in David?s name, a little trail marker on the road for those believed Yah?s servant David worked Yah?s will on earth.

Or, who has spoken the 22-letters while measuring their waveform shapes (both primary and reflective), and then mapped these geometries in 3-d to create a working model for harmonic pronunciation? Who will grow the science of linguistics beyond books and traditions ? when will it blossom as the study of biological wave harmonies in cultural networks?

This debate about pronunciation of our messiah?s name is naturally fun but not realistically provable by text alone, ?ah? or ?eh', or even 'ee'. I think we do well to guard first the literal text as written, and then whatever we measure is measured back to us. John 14:9-10, ?Philip said to him, our lord, show us the Father and it will satisfy us. Y?Shua said to him, ?All this time I am with you and you do not know me Philip. Whoever sees me sees the Father. And you, how do you say ?show us the Father?? Do you not believe that I am in my Father and my Father in me??

Ah, doubt. I doubt I would have searched deeper here without your question. Like the holes in the messiah?s hands, even the gaps between words reveal their part of the story. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe.
What I'm about to say is not technical. I can post something very technical if you like and not covered already but this is just personal observation.

I recently lived through allot of stress. I ended up without work now for going on 8 months for health reasons. During this process i noticed in my morning walks as i would meditate on yhwh. I found as I was walking along thinking about the birds singing and the early morning light coming up that pronouncing or meditating on yahweh that the sound was very peaceful and rolls off the lips very easily. I found it was even relaxing to say it that way. To use yehwah as I found it written in the Hebrew with the vowel pointings for adoni was more jarring and generally not as pleasant to listen to. It seemed less natural.

Sorry if this is unacceptable to others I'll post something else with quotes and in depth study if everybody wants but I thought I would share a personal observation while meditating on my beloved.

on this same thought as Greg alluded to I belive is that quite a few names that have a variation of yh, yw, maybe others like ya(y') all have a very similar or probably the same sounding.

A good example of this is all the words for the tribe yuda, juda, however it may be pronounced by most. It is only yhwdh. yhwh with the added d. Good reason to look at it seriously and think it was said his name was in him and when he was named his mother actually said his name meant "I will praise you yahweh" the letters are there to support every single letter in that name. If you look it up the patterns are there. So from this it would suggest a pronunciation of yahuda, yahudi, yahudim, etc.

There are many others like this and it only scratches the surface but you all get the ideah.

shalom

tobiyah