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This'll probably start some interesting debate. There are two words that I am trying to figure out how I would transliterate. These two happen to be "Mem-Resh-Yod" and "Yod-Sheen-Waw-Ayin".

MRY- Master Yah

Should this be transliterated simply as "Marya" or "MarYa" (as Janet Magiera did) or could this also be transliterated as "MarYah" (as David Bauscher and Andrew Gabriel Roth do). The problem with this pronunciation is that there is no "Heh" in order to completely justify it, but if you add the "H" while transliterating, it makes it more clear to someone not familiar with Syriac that this is a reference to the name "Yahweh". So would "MarYah" be an acceptable transliteration?

YSWA- Jesus

I am stuck between "Yeshua", "Yeshu", "Eshoo", and "Yeshu`". "Yeshua" seems to be more popular among translators (including Paul Younan, a native speaker of Aramaic), but "Eshoo" would appeal to members of the Church of the East. "Yeshu" is viewed as the more accurate transliteration by David Bauscher and by the late John Wesley Etheridge (who used "Jeshu", an anglicized form of "Yeshu"). I choose "Yeshu`" as a possibility, because "ayin" is not accurately represented in any English letter, therefore would probably be left best as an apostrophe (`). What say ye, brethren?
:

I'm just learning the ins and out of the language, myself, but If were talking Aramaic, not Hebrew,...I say if you want to be extra exact, it would be...

"MarYa" because there is no Heh at the end, and it's not needed for the pronunciation at all. It's purely cosmetic.

"Eshu" because adding the extra English letter "Y", causes one to think that the letter yodh, is pronounced with the "Y" sound, as in Ye or Ya...but, as far as I have heard it pronounced by native speakers, at least today, it has the sound of the letter "E" as in "Easy". That is how it is today...it seems that it was Yeshu at first...as in Yeeeeshu. But now the "Y" sound is silent when spoken.

Quote:by Paul Younan ? Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Shlama Akhay,

In the eastern pronunciation, when you have a Yodh followed by the vowel E, the Yodh becomes silent (or more correctly, it takes on the long EE sound).

This is the case with all names, not just Yeshua>Eshua....YeshaYahu/Eshaya(Isaiah)...Yetzkhaq/Eskhaq(Isaac). Etc.

The "ye" sound, over time, melded into "ee"...you can easily pronounce both and can see the natural transition over time.

+Shamasha

Shlama,
Chuck
Dylan, read this thread --> Re: Yeshu, Yehoshua, or Yeshua

Blessings,
Chuck
I've read the thread before, Brother, thanks though! I put "Eshua" for now, but I'm trying to decide not between "Eshu" and "Eshua"...Muy dificil!
:

The ayin is silent...so putting it there makes one want to say "ah" at the end. If you want to have people pronounce what the letters sound like together in Aramaic, it's Eshu. Yodh is long eeeee, not "Ye" and Ayin is silent...though some add the ' to at least represent the letter, I did for awhile, but it's silly.

In the movie "The Passion of the Christ", how do they say it? I forget...and I know they wernt always exact on their pronuciations. The Arabic form in English is spelled Isa, and is pronounced Eee sa, not Yeee sa.

Peace,
Chuck
Quote:I've read the thread before, Brother, thanks though!

LOL...Didn't you start that thread? I forgot.

Just when we think we got it just right...God's going to change it. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> ?And I will make the overcomer a pillar in The Temple of God and he will not go outside again, and I shall write upon him The Name of my God, and the name of The City, The New Jerusalem, which descends from my God, and my new Name.? Rev 3:12 -Baucsher
They said "Yay-shoo-waah". I love that movie, but I wish they would have used Syriac for the film instead of the Gibson dialect! I'm thinking about just sticking with "Eshu", even though I prefer "Yeshua". It seems like the former is better if I'm trying to get the Syriac dialect's pronunciation.
The letters for the spelling are fine though, "Yeshua"...it's just that the "Y" sound and the "a" sound are both silent in pronunciation.

Q: Can you see my profile pic? Will says it dosen't show on his screen.

Blessings,
Chuck
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:They said "Yay-shoo-waah". I love that movie, but I wish they would have used Syriac for the film instead of the Gibson dialect! I'm thinking about just sticking with "Eshu", even though I prefer "Yeshua". It seems like the former is better if I'm trying to get the Syriac dialect's pronunciation.
Or perhaps, they were speaking YHWH's dialect, instead of anyone of the present (de)evolved tongues. YHWH foretold this Name (ZekharYahu [Zechariah] 6:9-13) and we have not the right to redo it to fit our fancy(S) upon whim(s).

Don't get me wrong, as I redly admit that I have changed the way I spell this name over, and over as I learn more of how it was and not how it has (d)evolved unto the present.
See: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3383&p=20875#p20875">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3383&p=20875#p20875</a><!-- l -->


As for MarYa vs marya, mar Ephraem (4th century) instead of defining it, said it's an acronym standing for:
Meem: Marutha ("Adonship")
Resh: Rabbutha (?Mightyness/Grandeur, Splendor, Greatness?)
Yodh-Aleph: Ethya ("Self-Existence')
Mar Ephraem believed the Yodh-Aleph (which are the only two letters he grouped together in the acronym) stood for "Self-Existent" which clearly refers to the Divine Name (YHWH) in the Hebrew language.

As for leaving off the Heh I would say how do you want to try and convey the sound of this Name - the way YHWH did when he revealed it to man, or as it is in a Devolved state? Do you have the audacity to knowingly use such a distorted state of His Name on purpose? I am not saying I even know just how to pronounce The Short Form of this Name much less the Long Form thereof, but I do as I learn adjust to what it was while abandoning all what it had became. Or at least that is my wish/hope/goal. So how is the Short Form of the Divine Name pronounce (in Hebrew?)?

As far as to what audience you seek to please when portraying these Names it should be that of the Divine Presence of YHWH Himself and His only begotten Son, alone. Be true to Them, and do not worry who in this present day thinks you might be a bit nostalgic. Awmayn?
Thirdwoe Wrote:Q: Can you see my profile pic? Will says it doesn't show on his screen.

Blessings,
Chuck
It still only has an avatar box with no picture showing in it. So you have definitely tried to load one, as this is how mine was until I finally got help on how to correctly upload one. I had to upload my avatar to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://tinypic.com/?t=postupload">http://tinypic.com/?t=postupload</a><!-- m --> and then turn around and load it to this site from there before it would display.

Chuck, can you yourself see it to the right of your posts?

Anybody else see a picture in Chuck's avatar box, or just a box with "user avatar" in it?
I see your profile picture, Brother. Texas, the only thing about the "Yehoshua" pronunciation that I find wrong is the fact that Jesus was on earth during a time when "Yeshua" was a very popular form, not to say that Yehoshua wasn't still around too, but most of the tombs they've discovered that have a form of "YHWH Salvation" on there have "Yeshua". The Peshitta, which I'm sure you believe to have been written under divine inspiration, attests more to the Yeshua/Yeshu` pronunciation (Yod-Sheen-Waw-Ayin), instead of Yehoshua (Yod-Heh-Sheen-Waw-Ayin).
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:I see your profile picture, Brother. Texas, the only thing about the "Yehoshua" pronunciation that I find wrong is the fact that Jesus was on earth during a time when "Yeshua" was a very popular form, not to say that Yehoshua wasn't still around too, but most of the tombs they've discovered that have a form of "YHWH Salvation" on there have "Yeshua". The Peshitta, which I'm sure you believe to have been written under divine inspiration, attests more to the Yeshua/Yeshu` pronunciation (Yod-Sheen-Waw-Ayin), instead of Yehoshua (Yod-Heh-Sheen-Waw-Ayin).


Shlama,


something to keep in mind in all of the investigation is that YEHOSHUA is a distinctly Hebrew name, while YAYSHUA is later Biblical form, and ESHU' the Eastern Syriac. and of course IESOUS the Greek.

it is possible that M'sheekha Himself heard different forms from different indviduals, especially from the Semitic speakers.

also, in traditional Judaism, and also during M'sheekha's days, it was not uncommon to have two names, or two forms. the Hebrew was typically the "official," while an Aramaic or even a Greek one would be used unofficially. there are no known surviving Temple records (or are there?) of 1st century lineages and recorded names, so we can't check what might have officially been used for Him, tho the witness of Scripture itself in the Peshitta tells us they did call Him the Name the angel commanded Him to be named: ESHU'. to me, personally, that is sufficient. that is witness enough.

but thankfully, we can call Him ESHU', YESHUA, JESUS, IMMANU'EL, SON OF DAVID, and every other worthy title, and HE will answer His people when we call!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Amen. Yahweh knows who you're talking to!
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:I see your profile picture, Brother.
I still see no pic(?). I could not see BurningOne's either until I mentioned it to him and he did something and now his is working.


ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Texas, ... ... ... The Peshitta, which I'm sure you believe to have been written under divine inspiration, attests more to the Yeshua/Yeshu` pronunciation (Yod-Sheen-Waw-Ayin), instead of Yehoshua (Yod-Heh-Sheen-Waw-Ayin).
The Eastern PeshittA copies we have today are not the original autographs that were Divinely Inspired, they are just copies of copies of the original Divinely Inspired ReNewed Covenant. I see that they are better cpies than any Greek, Latin, or English translations but no I do not see them as the FLAWLESS. Of course I can not pinpoint much wrong with The Eastern PeshittA at the moment like I can the Greek , Latin, or KJV and or any other English translations, but then again we do not have the original Divine Autographs of the ReNewed Covenant to check them against. But I do not believe that they got the Anointed One's Name right, being I believe that YHWH Named His Son in the Book of ZecharYahu (6:9-13). But yes I do believe that the easstern PeshittA is the OLDEST and BEST version/ and possibly even perhaps originally a translation of Hebrew Autographs.

As for Yehoshua or YHWH answering us when we call upon them by anything other than their real Names, I will agree that they certainly answer us when we are ignorant of such, but I would not think that they would be so fond of being called something other when we individually know better. To me it is not very respectful, if at all, to call some one by any variation of their name (unless we have a speech impediment), far much less should we be so disrespectful to our parents. My dads name id Mike but I dare not tell people that his name is Micky or even Michael. YHWH forbid we be disrespectful of Him as to think we can call Him whatever we want and He will be fine with such if we know that that is not what His real Name is. And on that note I will say again what I believe it is today may change by tomorrow but I will call upon Him to what I think I know and nothing more or less. Personally I gave up trying to share what I have learned of The Divine Name unless some one asks, being I have come to know that we really do not know and those that think they do in my opinion have more studying to do. That is why I just write it as YHWH without the vowel now a days. When I actually say the Divine Name I add the vowels that I think are correct. As for The Anointed One I think that no one disagrees that the Name was originally Yehoshua or perhaps better yet Y'hoshua. And yes I have been called all sorts of things by people that though they are being cute, or just did not care enough to show enough respect as to pronounce my name rightly. Personally I find it hard to even want to be around such people, as who wants to be disrespected. And the ones whom thinks it is either cool or funny to do such or that it does not really matter then what ever I say is not going to make much if any difference, and I basically shared this in case some one out there does care and wants to call upon The Anointed Ones Name to the best of what one can know to this day. Anywho, by all means I believe I was saved years ago when I called out "Jesus [JEE-zuhs] I need your help, please come unto me this day that I may receive you", but I can no longer call upon The Anointed One by that misnomer anymore, nor unto YHWH as Jehovah. So yes They know who we are talking to, yet They also know the level of respect we show Them. Again I am not trying to by any means say that people that have no clue that Jehovah and Jesus are misnomers, I speak of the educated that think that YHWH does not hold us accountable to what they know. Last but not least -no matter what - one wrong done a infinite amount of times by billions of different people over thousands of years until it is thought to be the norm can never make it right, just can not happen that way much less any other. Wrong is wrong no matter who says it ain't.

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