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THE GENEALOGY OF MARY AND JESUS

Chapter 1 Matthew
1.The book of the genealogy of Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah, the Son of David the Son of Abraham.
2. Abraham [1] begot Isaac [2], Isaac begot Jacob [3], Jacob begot Judah [4] and brothers.
3. Judah begot Perez [5] and Zerah from Tamar. Perez begot Hezron [6], Hezron begot Aram [7].
4. Aram begot Aminadab [8], Aminadab begot Nahson [9], and Nahson begot Salmon[10].
5. Salmon begot Boaz [11] from Rahab, Boaz begot Obed [12] from Ruth, Obed begot Jesse [13].
6. Jesse begot David [14] the King.
(14 Generations)

David begot Solomon [1] from the wife of Uriah.
7. Solomon begot Rehoboam [2], Rehoboam begot Abijah [3], Abijah begot Asa [4].
8. Asa begot Jehoshaphat [5], Jehoshaphat begot Joram [6], Joram begot Uzziah [7].
9. Uzziah begot Jotham [8], Jotham begot Ahaz [9], Ahaz begot Hezekiah [10].
10. Hezekiah begot Manasseh [11], Manasseh begot Amon [12], and Amon begot Josiah [13].
11. Josiah begot Jechoniah [14] and his brothers about the captivity of Babel.
(14 Generations)

12. After the captivity of Babel, Jechoniah begot Shealtiel [1], Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel [2].
13. Zerubbabel begot Abiud [3], Abiud begot Eliakim [4], Eliakim begot Azor [5].
14. Azor begot Sadoc [6], Sadoc begot Achim [7], Achim begot Eliud [8].
15. Eliud begot Eleazar [9], Eleazar begot Matthan [10], Matthan begot Jacob [11].
16. Jacob begot Joseph [12] the Great Man (guardian or father) of Maryam (Mary) [13]
from whom was born Yeshua (Jesus) [14] who is called the Messiah.
(14 Generations)

17. Therefore all generations from Abraham until David were fourteen generations,
and from David down to the captivity of Babel, fourteen generations,
and from the captivity of Babel down to the Messiah, fourteen generations.

18. The birth of Yeshua [Jesus] the Messiah was thus: when Maryam (Mary)
his mother was engaged to (the young) Joseph before they would have a conjugal relation
she was found pregnant from the Holy Spirit.
19. But Joseph, her lord (baahla) was righteous and did not want to expose her, and
he was considering divorcing her secretly.

Otto Raabe, 12/25/12
That is the correct genealogy of Myriam and Y'shua.
shlama,

what's teh diference with the other genealogy's? (greeks?)

b'shaina
The Greek translation has a mistake in the last group of 14 Generations, giving only 13 Generations from the deportation to Babylon to Christ. The Aramaic text, gives the correct reading, showing 14 Generations for the same period, thus having no mistake.

The Greek misses a Generation, by mistranslating a word...guess which one.

Shlama,
Chuck
Thirdwoe Wrote:The Greek translation has a mistake in the last group of 14 Generations, giving only 13 Generations from the deportation to Babylon to Christ. The Aramaic text, gives the correct reading, showing 14 Generations for the same period, thus having no mistake.

The Greek misses a Generation, by mistranslating a word...guess which one.

Shlama,
Chuck

What about the Shem Tob that have another generation included that it is missing in the Greek. What do you think about that?
The Greek and Aramaic agree. Both the Greek and Aramaic refer
to the first Joseph as "the man of Mary".

TheEnglish version wrongly assumes that the Father of Mary is her husband.
Quote:What about the Shem Tob that have another generation included that it is missing in the Greek. What do you think about that?

What are the differance in names/readings, making it 14 Generations for the 3rd section?
Quote:The Greek and Aramaic agree. Both the Greek and Aramaic refer
to the first Joseph as "the man of Mary".

The English version wrongly assumes that the Father of Mary is her husband.

Do ancient language translations of the Greek, like the Latin and Coptic, translate the Greek word "andra", in a role specific term, such as the English did with "husband", and thus also wrongly assume the same as the English translators did?

And I think both the Aramaic and the Greek words could also mean "husband", just not being the usual term for such in each language?
Thirdwoe Wrote:
Quote:What about the Shem Tob that have another generation included that it is missing in the Greek. What do you think about that?

What are the difference in names/readings, making it 14 Generations for the 3rd section?

In the Hebraic Roots Version by James Scott I found a note that says that in verse 13 the Shem Tob have a name that is missing in the Greek.

In the AENT Matthew 1:13:

Zerubavel fathered Awiud. Awiud fathered Elyakim, Elyakim fathered Azor.

In the Hebraic Roots Version Matthew 1:13:

Z'rubabel begat Avi'chud, Avi'chud begat Av'ner, Av'ner begat Elyakim, Elyakim begat Azur.

In the Bible it is note that I quote:

Quote:303 The name Av'ner (Abner) appears only in the Hebrew of D and does not appear in the Greek text, however, it clearly belongs to the genealogy. Verse 17 tell us that the list should contain three sets of 14 names each... However, the Greek text has only 13 names in the last list. This 14th name was probably omitted because the similarity between (aleph bet nun resh) Av'ner/Abner (which it is sometimes spelled (aleph bet yod nun resh) and the previous name (aleph bet yod hey yod resh) Avihud. Evidence of this scribal error can be found in the Aramaic of the Old Syriac, which contains the two names to form (aleph bet yod vav resh) Avi'ur, which appears corrected in the Peshitta Aramaic as (alpeh bet yod vav dalet)

The Hebrew of D, maybe it is the DuTillet Matthew that have that reading, not the Shem Tob. I actually don't like this Hebrew Manuscripts of Matthew because there were written too late to be considered serious, but it is a different reading that the Peshitta and the Greek.
Quote:Evidence of this scribal error can be found in the Aramaic of the Old Syriac, which contains the two names to form (aleph bet yod vav resh) Avi'ur, which appears corrected in the Peshitta Aramaic as (alpeh bet yod vav dalet)

I just looked at both the Sinaitic Aramaic version and the Curetonian Aramaic version, and don't see that there is a person named Avi'ur in the list. What "Old Syriac" are they talking about?
Thirdwoe Wrote:
Quote:Evidence of this scribal error can be found in the Aramaic of the Old Syriac, which contains the two names to form (aleph bet yod vav resh) Avi'ur, which appears corrected in the Peshitta Aramaic as (alpeh bet yod vav dalet)

I just looked at both the Sinaitic Aramaic version and the Curetonian Aramaic version, and don't see that there is a person named Avi'ur in the list. What "Old Syriac" are they talking about?


Shlama,

check out this link:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/biblia/syriac_s/part09.pdf">http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/biblia/syriac_s/part09.pdf</a><!-- m -->

look at page 22 - the heading on the actual book scan will be Matt. 1:12-21

look at second line, first two words on the left, ABIUR and L'ABIUR.

my other two (or three) shekels: the Shem Tob is a sham! that was fun to write - more fun to say!

the Hebrew Matthews (Shem Tob, Du Tillet, and Munster) are not legit. don't waste time on obvious late forgeries. same goes for the Curetonian and the Sinai Palimpsest.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Yea, that's the Curetonian text, which is called "the old syriac"...I have a hard copy here as well, but, it reads the same as The Peshitta text does there, as far as I can see...so, I'm not sure where they got the info from, when they say that "the old syriac" shows another name, like they say the Du Tillet does.
Thirdwoe Wrote:Yea, that's the Curetonian text, which is called "the old syriac"...I have a hard copy here as well, but, it reads the same as The Peshitta text does there, as far as I can see...so, I'm not sure where they got the info from, when they say that "the old syriac" shows another name, like they say the Du Tillet does.

Shlama,

the Curetonian does not read the same as the Peshitta here:

Peshitta has the name ABIUD.

Curetonian has the name ABIUR.

basically, it's a confusion of the Dalet/Resh, which happens so often in both Hebrew and Aramaic scripts due to visual similarity of the letters.

Du Tillet Hebrew Matthew is: AVIHUD
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.torahresource.com/DuTillet/Peshito-DuTillet.pdf">http://www.torahresource.com/DuTillet/P ... Tillet.pdf</a><!-- m -->

the Shem Tob Hebrew Matthew is: AVIHUD
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.torahresource.com/DuTillet/EvenBohan-5.13.pdf">http://www.torahresource.com/DuTillet/E ... n-5.13.pdf</a><!-- m -->

the Curetonian is the big goof in this analysis. but i think what the note quoted in a previous post probably intended to say was "combines" instead of "contains," as that would make sense at least of what they are suggesting. just a guess. t

here's only one major variant here, and that is the Curetonian reading.

so, ignore the aforementioned note on the Hebrew Matthews and instead note that the Old Syriac Curetonian made a scribal error, replacing the correct letter Dalet with the incorrect letter Resh.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Opps...yes, the letters are very similar at the end of the names there, wow...I need to get a stronger perscription looks like. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

So, there really is no added name in any of the texts, then?
Thirdwoe Wrote:Opps...yes, the letters are very similar at the end of the names there, wow...I need to get a stronger perscription looks like. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

So, there really is no added name in any of the texts, then?


Shlama,


the Dalet/Resh confusion is EASY to make, so your prescription is probably just fine! lol i can show you names in the Hebrew Masoretic text that read with a Dalet in one passage and a Resh in another. not even the scribes sought to change them to conform the two names!


as for an added name in the texts, YES, there is one. it is in the Du Tillet Hebrew Matthew. i'll list them to show you the contents:

Du Tillet Hebrew Matthew:
1. Jeconiah
2. Shealtiel
3. Zerubbabel
4. Avihud
5. Abner
6. Elyaqim
7. Azor
8. Zadoq
9. Amnon
10. Elihud
11. Elazar
12. Mattan
13. Jacob
14. Joseph


Shem Tob Hebrew Matthew:
1. Jeconiah
2. Shealtiel
3. Zerubbabel
4. Abihud
5. Aqim
6. Elihud
7. Elazar
8. Mattan
9. Jacob
10. Joseph
11. Yeshu
12. ---
13. ---
14. ---

Peshitta Aramaic Matthew:
1. Jeconiah
2. Shealtiel
3. Zerubbabel
4. Aviyud
5. Elyaqim
6. Azur
7. Zadoq
8. Akeen
9. Eliyud
10. Eli'azar
11. Mattan
12. Yaqub
13. Yosef
14. Eshu'

Greek Matthew:
1. Jeconiah
2. Shealtiel
3. Zeurbbabel
4. Abihud
5. Elyaqim
6. Azor
7. Zadoq
8. Aqim
9. Elihud
10. Elazar
11. Mattan
12. Jacob
13. Joseph
14. Yeshua


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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