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Hi Everyone :-) I am new to this website and the forum (and English is my second language, so do not pay much attention to my mistakes...). Ok, I think I have an interesting question to ask: There is written in book of Acts 11:26 that ...disciples in Antiochi were first called Kristianay (I am using EANT by Andrew G. Roth). I don't understand why Aramaic speaking people of Antiochi used a Greek word to give the disciples an official name? Why didn't they call them Meshichoy... or something like that? Or maybe the Greek word Kristianay entered an Aramaic scroll in later times? But how and why? Can someone help me to understand this strange thing? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->

Bartek
Hi brother,

There we have the first non-jewish but Syrian church outside of Jerusalem.

Lots of words in that environment, are simply loanwords. (such as eucharistiya, for breaking the bread)

It would suprise me more if no greek loanwords were in the Peshitta. If that were the case, it would be e.g. Chaldean instead of Syrian.
Hi Distazo :-)

I am really grateful for your reply :-), and... yeah, what you wrote makes sense. Loanwords are common in every language. And well... since the Roman empire took over the region with the Greek as official language, many people "borrowed" from it - yes, it makes sense...:-) Thanx again and Shalom to you my brother :-)

Bartek
Hi Bartek,

What if they all were, prior to that, called "Meshikhaye" ... and this passage is just telling us that the by then common "Christaye" was first used at Antioch ?

In other words, when an author is saying something's name changed at this location and at this time, it makes sense that *prior* to that, that wasn't the case. Makes sense?

+Shamasha
Hi Paul Younan :-)

Thank you for your reply - yes, I think that's a good argument. The early disciples were probably commonly known as "Meshikhaye" or "Mashiyachim" and only later this word was translated into Greek. When non-Jewish believers took over they simply forgot the Jewish origin of their faith.

I am Judeo-Messianic believer and I was tought to stick to Hebrew rather than Aramaic or Greek, but I want to learn more and I am happy I have found this webside :-) Blessings for all of you! Shalom!

Bartek
bensocha Wrote:Hi Paul Younan :-)

Thank you for your reply - yes, I think that's a good argument. The early disciples were probably commonly known as "Meshikhaye" or "Mashiyachim" and only later this word was translated into Greek. When non-Jewish believers took over they simply forgot the Jewish origin of their faith.

I am Judeo-Messianic believer and I was tought to stick to Hebrew rather than Aramaic or Greek, but I want to learn more and I am happy I have found this webside :-) Blessings for all of you! Shalom!

Bartek

Shalom Akhi Bartek:
I just want to throw some light on the historical background which led to the first naming of the Antioch, Greek speaking Gentile believers in Mashiakh, as Christians.It's not likely that Greek speaking gentiles forgot the Jewish origins of the Jewish faith in the middle of the First Century, since the Temple was standing at that time and the Apostles (all Jewish) were still alive. After the destruction of Jerusalem, Yavneh became the Rabbinical centre of leadership for Kol Beyt Yisrael both in the Land and in the Diaspora. Messianic Jews escaped to Petra, where they were safe from further Roman atrocities as well as attacks from the unbelieving Jews and their Rabbinic leadership. In 93 A. D. Rabbi Gamaliel II commissioned Samuel the Small (Sh'muel haKatan) to write the 19th benediction of the Amidah, cursing all Messianic Jews (Netzarim), calling them minim (heretics). By adding this ?prayer?, Messianic Jews could not enter the synagogue and recite the Amidah without uttering a curse upon themselves. This stands in contrast to Acs 15 where the synagogue was the local place of Jewish worship both in the Land and throughout the world. The slow amnesia of the Greek speaking Christians, concerning the Jewish roots of Messianic faith began after the Bar Kokhba (Ben Kosiva) revolt which ended with the destruction of Betar (132 A.D to 136 A.D.) and the banishment of the Jews from the Land, except for the small Rabbinical community in Modiin which the Romans allowed. This city was the centre from which arose the Talmudic beginnings, the written Mishnah as it exists today. I hope this helps you to understand some depth of the original controversies between the Messianic -Christian community vis-a-vis the Judaism of Modiin, namely Talmud-Torah (toward the end of the second century and which was completed in the fifth century, incidentaly, about 100 years before Muhammed).

Shalom uV'rakha,
Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
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Paul Younan Wrote:Hi Bartek,

What if they all were, prior to that, called "Meshikhaye" ... and this passage is just telling us that the by then common "Christaye" was first used at Antioch ?

In other words, when an author is saying something's name changed at this location and at this time, it makes sense that *prior* to that, that wasn't the case. Makes sense?

+Shamasha


Shlama akhi,


these were my thoughts, as well. especially knowing the cross-roads nature of Antioch and the bilingual prevalence there of Aramaic and Greek, it would only be logical to comment on the "rise" of this term in such a city. obviously it would have been no big deal for them to have been called a Semitic term of description if they arose initially in a culture immersed in a Semitic language -- why even comment on that, right? it would only stand out worthy of noting if something *changed* enough linguistically. a blossoming community of belief intermixed with a heavy dose of "Gentiles" would be the perfect recipe for an alternate title in another language.



Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Burning one Wrote:
Paul Younan Wrote:these were my thoughts, as well. especially knowing the cross-roads nature of Antioch and the bilingual prevalence there of Aramaic and Greek, it would only be logical to comment on the "rise" of this term in such a city. obviously it would have been no big deal for them to have been called a Semitic term of description if they arose initially in a culture immersed in a Semitic language -- why even comment on that, right? it would only stand out worthy of noting if something *changed* enough linguistically. a blossoming community of belief intermixed with a heavy dose of "Gentiles" would be the perfect recipe for an alternate title in another language.



Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Hi Akhi,

Yes, and it's stuck to this day. You'll sometimes hear people today use the terms Meshikhaye/Kristyane interchangeably in the various neo-Aramaic dialects as well, sometimes in the same sentence without even realizing it. They're used today as synonyms.

+Shamasha