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Dear beloved family in Yashua, Berek Maryah!!! This group is obviously a rouge fallacious non canonical church with absolutely no ties to true canonical Apostolic Eastern Christianity like the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches or the Church of the East or Chaldean church or other Eastern rite Catholic churches.Its a shame groups like this can pop up and call themselves anything they like but it doesnt make them that.They are as the Lord says in the Gospel of St.John : Truely I say to you whoever does not enter the sheephold of the flock by the gate,but climbs up by another place,that man is a thief and a robber".The problem is that these parasites can prey upon naieve and ignorant people who dont know the differance between the true Eastern Apostolic churches and these wolves in sheeps clothing.In Yashua,Deacon Michael.
Deacon Michael,

What do you base your judgment upon, regarding this group? Did you read some statement that they have made, or hear a teaching, or anything else that you feel fails the test of a true expression of the Body of Christ and member thereof? If so, please tell us here.

As you know, there are many churches in the world, some we may not have any knowlege as yet, as to teaching and practice.

I am reminded of that man whom the Apostles ran across one day, as they were out preaching the Gospel and doing the Lord's work...they found this man, who was also doing Christ's work, yet they never had seen or heard of him before as he was not part of there group...They thought that he should not be doing what he was doing....yet, Jesus instructed to hinder him not...

I think we should be careful not to rush to judgment, before we know more about this group.

They may indeed by heretical, once we look closer at what they are teaching, or they may indeed by true as well. We must be careful.

This is not against you, but just a general warning, and something that God has delt with me about in the past. Yes, there are many groups that are false...but not all of them, even though they do not work with the particular group of Christians we may be with.

May God's blessings be yours in Christ our Lord and Saviour.
I am reading a book on ACOE history, book I bought from St. Andrews here in Chicago. The book is sanctioned by Mar Dinkha, by the way.

I think would do some of us real good to read that book from cover to cover. That might shed some illumination on the origin of at least some of the practices in some of our churches. I don't think there is really any church that's been completely immune from the pressure of the worldly powers. And it didn't end up incorporating some practices, at certain point in its history, that were simply imposed upon by the earthly powers and not from the teaching of Yeshua or His Apostles. But it probably takes a certain level of maturity to admit some of that. And some would do better just believing that their own church is simply the best on earth, all other are in utter error, etc. (until they grow up a bit). Been there done that?.

Yeshua was very clear in his teaching; there is only one thing that really matters (referring to Martha and Maria).

What was that, by the way?
Same post really, just splitting it in two, so that it doesn't get too long...

As long as I see a church having that one thing that Yeshua mentioned, I?ll be in complete amazement at the grace of God, and will not be scared to fellowship with them, if they also are not scared to fellowship with me.

By the way, I am a nobody truly; nobody should believe what I say without investigating it. But at least this is my perspective since I start paying a closer look at the teachings of Yeshua.

And the Church of East has His excellent teachings in the closest form to how they were delivered initially. I want to get that from you guys. But at the same time, we should be all aware that His teachings are not our own property, and nothing to be boastful about. They are His and are the greatest gift to the whole world. And those faithfully martyrs would surely get their reward for faithfully preserving His excellent teachings.

Should go to sleep, I have a long day tomorrow :-)

What makes them "ravening wolves"?

The name, the practice, the teaching? What exactly? I don't know about them or their teachings at all...but I can find out, by both reading their statements there and by talking with them. Looks like they are here in my town in Santa Cruz, Ca.

you said: "guys don't have apostolic succesion"

What is the proof of this please? Do you know this to be the case, or just suspect it to be the case?

What about all other Christian groups that have a Communion service as well? Must they also have proof of Apostolic Succesion, for the Sacraments which they distribute to be valid? What you say above, condenms all Protestant Christianity as being the "conventicles of satan" Is that really what you believe and is this the judgment of The Assyrian Church of the East?

I have taken the time to read through their site tonight and found this statement, where they go into detail their orgins and affiliations:

"Mar Narsai also made sincere attempts to attain positive relations with Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox jurisdictions, including the East Syrian Church (Chaldean). Such ecumenical efforts led to a fraternal relationship with Patriarch Mar Eshai Shimun of the Assyrian Church of the East."

If Mar Eshai Shimun thought as you do, this relationship would not have been possible...If what is said above is true that is. Can it be verified?

I have emailed them tonight and have their phone number in hand and their physical adress...its just down the road from me...and will do some asking to know for myself and will report what I learn here.

I understand from what I read so far there, that they descend from the St. Thomas Christians in India, with which they share some traditions.

I am not trying to defend there group, because I do not know them, or have any intrest in joining them, but only believe that we should test them to see who they are and what they believe and teach, before we condemn them as being of satan and try to hinder their work.

And if they cannot offer communion or have a valid public service, that represents the Body of Christ, because they do not have a direct link to the branches you mention, then I guess that you believe that no Christian Protestant branch of Christianity can either.
Akhan Alan. They apparently are a mixture of a bunch of different things cherry picked from a lot if different ancient traditions. Never heard of them before.

In any case they go through a lot of trouble to impersonate the real CoE. However there's a few epic fails on their website. The first is the use of the term Greek term Theotokos. The second is their acceptance of Ephesus. Another is that black skullcap their "Metropolitan Mar Narsai" is using, that's something solely worn by the Jacobites, not the CoE.

Looks like a poorly thought out mish-mash of traditions. If you're going to try and impersonate someone, this is a poor effort.

Very odd.
I don't see that they are trying to impersonate The Assyrian Church of the East. They clearly say where they come from and what group they are aligned with on their site. The St. Thomas Christians of India is what they speak about. Just because they use "Church of the East" does not mean that they are trying to be "The Assyrian Church of the East." They have their own identity it looks like to me, and are not trying to say that they are the Assyrian Church of the East in any way.

In fact, they say there that they had a "fraternal relationship with Patriarch Mar Eshai Shimun of the Assyrian Church of the East." Obviously, they are not pretending to be the same Church, if they mention the Assyrian COE as other than them, they are not saying that they are the same group.

Also they would not use the term "Theotokos" or mention that they agree with the Council of Ephesus.
Shlama Chuck. They call themselves the "American Church of the East.". (east of what I haven't a clue, Japan?). They use the acronym ACOE. They use just enough Aramaic terminology in their website, including honorific titles such as "Mar". Etc.

A lot of people after Mar Shimun passed away of course claim to have some sort of relationship with him. Funny thing is Qasha Klutz, the personal secretary to the Patriarch, has no clue who these people are.

BTW, the "Thomas Christians" of India are the Church of the East.

The points Paul has mentioned actually are there: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->
"We behold Mary as Theotokos, as God Bearer"
Ephesus (431); and Chalcedon (451).
Hi Chuck,

This is not the first time a group has tried to imitate or falsify being a part of or stemming from the Church of the East. There's also a group called Nasrani which came up a couple of years ago very similar to the group we are dealing with here.

God knows what their motive is but their foundation is baseless.
Akhan Robert. His Grace Mar Meelis has brought a lawsuit against the former bishop for using our name and trademarks falsely. I wonder if there would be a case here, as these guys are shamelessly breaking more laws than the former bishop ever did. Imitation is flattering, but this is over the top.
This man lives in my town. I'll knock on his door and see what he says.
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