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Alan G77 Wrote:Texas rat,

The Church of the East is not a sect, it forms a part of the Churches founded by the Apostles much like the eastern and oriental orthodox and yes, even the Roman Catholic Church.

The Church is the body of Yeshua and should be respected as such, but go on and claim that you have revealed some sort of divine revelation concerning the truth, and that your perversion, excuse me version, of Christianity is the sole portrayer of truth.

We have had 2000 years of experience dealing with people who claim to know this or that, fact of the matter is that if anyone dares brings a gospel other than the one that has been taught is accursed.

Alan, by my dictionary the Pharisees were a sect, the Saducess were a sect and so was the Sect of the Nazarenes. By using this term I in no way meant "cult" in which I think you are getting mixed up with. Personally I fancy my self to be of the Nazarene Sect.

Anyway, sound as if you could take a Shabbawth rest. Seems all that battling has made you weary. Your post on the other thread about the first day of the week verses the Shabbawth is the best you have done so far on that subject. I gotta go for now but I would like to give it one last go from the veiw on the other side of the fence.

will brinson: ferguson
Weary? No brother I do not fall weary of defending the truth, Jesus gives me strength and He works through those who love and abide in Him, as I am sure you do my friend.

We may not agree on certain things, but that does not mean we are not brothers.
Will,

The "other side of the fence" was dealt with already...at the Council of Jerusalem with James the Apostle and the rest of the Apostles who delt with this issue in about 50 A.D.

Also, you can read the whole book of Galatians and the whole book of Hebrews...and Romans too...as God clearly lays it out there.

Sure a person can try to labor under the yoke of the former Covenant all they want...and think that they are keeping the law faithfully...but they are decieving themselves, if they think that their observance is making them any more sanctified, than what The Messiah has already them Holy IN Him.

Ask this question...what sins did The Messiah not pay for on His Cross for His People?...is there some that we are guilty of today, this week...next week, that maybe The Messiah needs to put more of His Blood towards to pay it down?

Pray that God would help to understand the true meaning of The Sabbath Rest. It is not just a day of the week not to work on...and a time to pray and read the Bible more...it means much more than that.

I don't mind if someone attends a gathering of believers on the 7th day of the week...I do that too...or on the 1st day of the week...I do that too...or if they want to set aside the whole 7th day to study the Scriptures...I do that as well...or on the 1st day...me as well. In fact its a constant with me all week and all month...I can't get enough time!!

We must be careful not to go against that The Messiah says through His Apostle here.

"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath." Colosians 2:16.

And so we must not let anyone do so...because it goes against what God has taught, through His spokesperson...

Glory to God.
Thirdwoe, that was an insightful post! Truly God is working through you! Amen and Amen.
Alan G77 Wrote:Weary? No brother I do not fall weary of defending the truth, Jesus gives me strength and He works through those who love and abide in Him, as I am sure you do my friend.

We may not agree on certain things, but that does not mean we are not brothers.


Awmane, your brother in Yahu-Shuah.

will brinson: ferguson
Thirdwoe Wrote:Will,

... ... ...
Sure a person can try to labor under the yoke of the former Covenant all they want...and think that they are keeping the law faithfully...but they are decieving themselves, if they think that their observance is making them any more sanctified, than what The Messiah has already them Holy IN Him.

Ask this question...what sins did The Messiah not pay for on His Cross for His People?...is there some that we are guilty of today, this week...next week, that maybe The Messiah needs to put more of His Blood towards to pay it down?

Pray that God would help to understand the true meaning of The Sabbath Rest. It is not just a day of the week not to work on...and a time to pray and read the Bible more...it means much more than that.

I don't mind if someone attends a gathering of believers on the 7th day of the week...I do that too...or on the 1st day of the week...I do that too...or if they want to set aside the whole 7th day to study the Scriptures...I do that as well...or on the 1st day...me as well. In fact its a constant with me all week and all month...I can't get enough time!!

We must be careful not to go against that The Messiah says through His Apostle here.

"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath." Colosians 2:16.

And so we must not let anyone do so...because it goes against what God has taught, through His spokesperson...

Glory to God.


Any sin that is not asked forgiveness for stands against the sinner. If one does not repent they will not be forgiven. Yes it is a gift that we could not earn but still it has conditions. If the conditions are not met then the gift is not given. Repentance is a must and it involves turning from sin which the Law of Yahuwah proclaims to be sin, not a church that thinks they got the right to rewrite Ailoheem' intentions. Man (a.k.a. - the church) does not got the authority to change Ailoheem' writings, they are only to interpret them correctly. That is to say stay in the context of the Scriptures and not take them out of context and bend and twist them around to suit one' personal fancy.

I understand that there is fare more than just a day of rest behind the Rest that He gives us. It is to permeate or entire lives day by day, but this does not excuse one from being in covenant with Yahuwah. We must be in covenant with Yahuwah in order to receive this rest. And yes today in order to be in covenant with Yahuwah we must first accept His Son as having paid the price for or restoration cost and repent of the activity that causes us to be out of relationship with Yahuwah to start with. Even if we are salvaged back into a relationship with the Heavenly Father we can still trash that relationship by continuing to dance with HaSawtawn. Example: if a man commits adultery and his wife tells him that she willl forgive him for that offense and the man goes and does it again and again, did the first forgiveness cover the second or third offence? I know that the price is paid once for all time, and that Yahu-Shuah need not be sacrifice again, but at the same time we must ask for forgiveness of our sins and turn from them or we are but fooling ourselves.

AS FAR AS TAKING SHAUL' WORDS OUT OF CONTEXT you are not the first nor will you be the last. But that does not mean that you should not repent. Shaul was not telling believers not to care about what the true faith was and that they could decide for themselves which days they would observe as Set-Apart but to not worry about what false teachers were saying about the feasting aspects of the Shabbawths, New Moon Days, and Feasts.

Shaul' writing are a little bit harder to understand if one does not consider the context of the situation of who, what, when, where, and why he said what he said.

?Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a Set-Apart Day, or of the New Moon, or of the Shabbath Days: which are a shadow of things to come?? (Colossians 2: 16-17 [KJV]).

This passage is often misinterpreted. What does it really say?

SHAUL WAS COMBATING A LOCAL HERESY. False teachers had introduced their own religious philosophy, which was a blend of Yahu-Dish and gentile concepts. Their distorted ideas were founded on human ?tradition? and ?principles of the world,? not on the Word of Yahuwah. Shaul warned the Colossians to ? beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to The Anointed One? ( verse 8 ).

These false teachers introduced their own rules and regulations for their idea of proper conduct (verses 20-22). The content of Shaul? warning to the Colossian Congregation strongly indicates that these heretics were the forerunners of a major heresy that developed into Gnosticism, which is a belief system that holds that secret knowledge [gnosis is Greek for ?knowledge,? hence the term Gnosticism] can enhance one?s religion. Gnostics claimed to be so spiritual that they disdained virtually everything physical, regarding it as beneath them.

The false teachers in Colosse rejected the physical- the perishable things that could be touched, tasted or handled (verses 21-22) ?particularly when it related to worship. Their philosophy encouraged neglect of the physical needs of the body to attain heightened spirituality. In reality, however, their self-imposed religion did nothing of the sort and accomplished nothing in combating human nature. As Shaul wrote, it was of ?no value against the indulgence of the flesh? (verse 23).

The heretics condemned the Colossian Congregation for the manner in which the Colossians observed the Set-Apart Days. Notice that they didn?t challenge the Days themselves. It was the physical enjoyment of them- rejoicing and feasting- that provoked the objections of these false teachers.

The original Greek in verse 16 for ?meat, or in drink?- enbroosei and en posei-means ?in eating and in drinking.?

Notice Shaul?s words again: ?So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding [Greek meros, meaning ?part,? or ?regarding any portion of?] a Festival or a New Moon or Shabbawth? (Colossians 2:16).

Shaul was telling the Colossians to ignore these heretic?s judgments and criticisms about their enjoyment of the eating and drinking aspects of Yahuwah? Festivals.

There is no mention of the abolition of Yahuwah? Torah (Set of Instructions for righteous living within the Kingdom of Yahuwah) or His Set-Apart Days. Nothing is done away in these verses. In fact, it is just the opposite. The very criticism the Colossians were receiving about their observance of these Days proves they were keeping them. How could they be criticized ?with regard to? days they were not keeping?

Rather than showing disregard for the Days Yahuwah established as Set-Apart, Shaul? comments in this passage confirm that the Colossian Assembly - who were primarily gentiles ( Colossians 2:13)- were observing the weekly Shabbawths and Set-Apart Days of Yahuwah more than 30 years after Yahu-Shuah The Anointed One?s death and resurrection.

The once-pagan Colossians never kept these Set-Apart Days of Yahuwah before! They were heathen prior to conversion. Now that they had learned the Gospel, they were keeping Set-Apart Days that Yahuwah Sanctified. And Shaul is warning them not to be ridiculed into mixing their old pagan ways - the ways of those who hated Yahuwah? Torah and His Festivals in the first place.

?Let no man therefore judge you?? (verse 16) in these matters, said Shaul, ?but [rather] the body? of The Anointed One? (Colossians 2:17, last part).

This verse has troubled many. Yet it should not. Notice that the word ?is? in the King James Version is in italics. It does not appear in the original. The original Greek says only, ?? but, the body of The Anointed One.? What is the body of The Anointed One? How does Shaul use this expression in Colossian?

Turn to chapter 1. In verse 18 we find that The Anointed One ?is the head of the body, THE CONGREGATION.? See also Colossians 2:19.

The true Congregation of Yahuwah is the Body of The Anointed One. Just as the Spirit of Yahuwah once dwelled in the earthly body of Yahu-Shuah The Anointed One so now the Set-Apart Spirit dwells in each member of the Congregation and together the members constitute One Body, doing the very work The Anointed One did. The Congregation is therefore The Anointed One? Body today! And The Anointed One is the Head as the husband is the head of the wife (Ephesians 5:23).

Shaul is declaring in Colossians that no gentile [pagan] person is to sit in judgment of a true Believer?s conduct. The pagan society is not to determine how we are to live. But it is the responsibility of the Assembly -The Body of The Anointed One- to determine these matters! The Congregation is to teach how to observe the Festivals- to explain the meaning of self-control in eating and drinking, etc.

So these little-understood verses ought to be translated clearly: ?Let no man therefore judge you? but [rather let] the body of The Anointed One [determine it].? Let The Anointed One? Body judge these Congregational matters. Greek scholars recognize the last clause ?but [rather] the body of The Anointed One? demands that a verb be added, but have often not seen that the missing verb should be supplied from the most logical and grammatically parallel clause so as to read properly ?Let the body of The Anointed One judge [these matters]?!

Had they not been observing these Days, the heretics would have had no basis for their objections to the eating and drinking aspects- the feasting portion- of the Shabbawths, New Moons, and the Set-Apart Days. Colossians 2:16 was written as a warning to the Gentile Believers at Colosse to protect them from false teachers-teachers who were subtly perverting the message Shaul taught. Notice what Shaul wrote: ?Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink [margin- for eating or drinking], or in respect of a Set-Apart Day, or of the New Moon, or of the Shabbawth Days, -

?which are a shadow of things to come ? (Colossians 2:16).

Yahu-Shuah said ?How often I would have gathered you under my wings but you would not?. The Set-Apart Days are a shadow of things to come, Yahu-Shuah is that which is to come, and He would have often protected us under the Shadow of His Wings (the Set-Apart Days of Yahuwah) but we would not. Keeping the Shabbawths and Festivals of Yahuwah are the Wings of our Savoir that He, Yahu-Shuah, would have us to gather under.

Shaul was not talking to people being harassed by other true believers or by the Yahu-Deem for not wanting to observed Yahuwah' Set-Apart Days.

IF YOUR GOING TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES DO IT RIGHT. And Study before preaching. I find it is always better to put the extra time in to be sure than to just run off the top of the head so to speak. I learned this from personal experience, <!-- sBlush --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/blush.gif" alt="Blush" title="Blush" /><!-- sBlush --> oy vey.

{2 Timotheos 2:15}
Make every effort to study diligently thine own self,
acceptable - being ready at hand [for assitance] before Ailoheem,
a teacher that needs not to be ashamed,
preaching CORRECTLY the Word; the Truth. <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

{Colossians 2: 8}
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which
depends on human traditions and the basic principles of this world [that of HaSawtawn] ,
rather than in The Anointed One. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

{Ephesians 5:11}
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather EXPOSE them. <!-- s:oha: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/oha.gif" alt=":oha:" title="Oha!" /><!-- s:oha: -->

{2 Timotheos 4:1-5}
In the sight of Ailoheem and the Master Yahu-Shuah The Anointed One,
who shall judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His Reign, I earnestly charge you:
Proclaim the Word! Be urgent in season, out of season. Reprove[1], warn, appeal,
with all patience and teaching. [Footnote: [1] Or: confute, or prove them wrong.]
FOR THERE SHALL BE A TIME WHEN THEY SHALL NOT BEAR SOUND TEACHING,
BUT ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRES,
THEY SHALL HEAP UP FOR THEMSELVES TEACHERS TICKLING THE EAR[1],
[Footnote: [1] Isa. 30:10, Jer. 5:31, Rom. 16:18.]
AND THEY SHALL INDEED TURN THEIR EARS AWAY FROM THE TRUTH, AND BE TURNED ASIDE TO MYTHS.
BUT YOU BE SOBER IN ALL MATTERS, SUFFER HARDSHIPS, DO THE WORK OF AN EVANGELIST, ACCOMPLISH YOUR SERVICE COMPLETELY. <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->


Awmane.

Your Brother in Yahu-Shuah the Anointed One.
brother,

It sounds as is everybody is doing wrong except you <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
Will,

It seems to me after reading your posts, that you seem to think that we teach it is OK to walk in the flesh and fulfill the lusts thereof, and that there is no consequence for doing so? If this is your understanding of our relationship with The Messiah and His Father...then you don't understand us at all.

Maybe you have some image in your mind, where you see people that go out and live in their fleshly nature all the time and think nothing of it? That is not what we teach.

If so...you have a distorted and false image of who we are and what we believe as God's Holy People.

I don't find much to disagree with you on most of your points, other than the Former Covenant is not the New Covenant, and God does not deal with His Children on the basis of keeping all the rituals and ordaninces and diets and the various days of observance.

But if a person wants to labor under that Former Covenant, which is no longer valid, and was fullfilled in The Messiah, who met all the requirements...then they can....but understand that it does not save the soul in any way.

As to the moral law...of course it is still true and right to walk in it, as it is loving your fellow man...which The Messiah teaches and commands us to do.

I'll go over some more with you when I get back to the computer...and thanks for taking the time to lay out your position.

Blessings,
Chuck
Thirdwoe Wrote:Will,

It seems to me after reading your posts, that you seem to think that we teach it is OK to walk in the flesh and fulfill the lusts thereof, and that there is no consequence for doing so? If this is your understanding of our relationship with The Messiah and His Father...then you don't understand us at all.

Maybe you have some image in your mind, where you see people that go out and live in their fleshly nature all the time and think nothing of it? That is not what we teach.

If so...you have a distorted and false image of who we are and what we believe as God's Holy People.

I don't find much to disagree with you on most of your points, other than the Former Covenant is not the New Covenant, and God does not deal with His Children on the basis of keeping all the rituals and ordaninces and diets and the various days of observance.

But if a person wants to labor under that Former Covenant, which is no longer valid, and was fullfilled in The Messiah, who met all the requirements...then they can....but understand that it does not save the soul in any way.

As to the moral law...of course it is still true and right to walk in it, as it is loving your fellow man...which The Messiah teaches and commands us to do.

I'll go over some more with you when I get back to the computer...and thanks for taking the time to lay out your position.

Blessings,
Chuck

Chuck,
if the the impression I got was wrong it came from what you said or the fact that you said something with out clarity. Anyway it has come to my attention that it is against forum rules to refute and instruct other in the area of Scriptural doctrine, so this is the last time I will be addressing you (or anybody else for that matter) on anything other than textual stuff. If you wish for further rebuke, instructions, or warnings we will have to do it at another forum. Please feel free to visit me @: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://thetexasrat.freeforums.org/index.php">http://thetexasrat.freeforums.org/index.php</a><!-- m --> and I will be more than glad to help you see that walking in the Spirit of Yahuwah fulfilling the Law Yahuwah is not the same as walking in the flesh trying to keep or not trying to keep the Law of Yahuwah. For if one crucifies their flesh to allow Yahu-Shuah The Anointed One to live in them through the Set-Apart Spirit, this Set-Apart Spirit will live out the Law of Yahuwah through them. Anything we do of the flesh is as filthy rags in the site of Yahuwah (and considered to be adulteress), and only the deeds done by His Set-Apart Spirit [which we are to receive after we accept Yahu-Shuah as our Savoir and Master] through us are to be counted as Righteous. So no we do not gain Salvation by our works of the flesh but if we are truly salvaged the Set-Apart Spirit will walk out the Law of Yahuwah through us, if we crucify the flesh and quench not the Set-Apart Spirit. This would include leading us to observe the Shabbawth and the Feast Days. Again not done to gain salvation, but allowed to be done through us for the sake of the will of the One Whom sent the One Whom salvaged us (because They asked it of us - not as payment for services rendered, but as a duty to our Master' will, that is if we really accepted Him as our Master and Savoir.

I'll be quite frank here - no Master no Savoir - no deeds of the Spirit no faith, no salvation. Yahuwah seeks those whom will worship Him in Spirit and Truth: FOR THERE SHALL BE A TIME WHEN THEY SHALL NOT BEAR SOUND TEACHING, BUT ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRES, THEY SHALL HEAP UP FOR THEMSELVES TEACHERS TICKLING THE EAR[1], [Footnote: [1] Isa. 30:10, Jer. 5:31, Rom. 16:18.] AND THEY SHALL INDEED TURN THEIR EARS AWAY FROM THE TRUTH, AND BE TURNED ASIDE TO MYTHS).

Anyway if you would like to reply to this, or if anyone else would like to follow this conversation or get involved, go to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://thetexasrat.freeforums.org/index.php">http://thetexasrat.freeforums.org/index.php</a><!-- m --> . Again because of the forum rules I will not answer anything else on Scriptual doctrines here at Peshitta.org.
But Texas, it is you who brings new and strange doctrines to the faith brother, we have held the teachings since the beginning.

Texas, do you go and sacrifice a lamb for sin offerings? This was a requirement of the law.
Will (the Texas Rat),

This is the general forum...we can talk about this here...and we can show you in the Peshitta, how what you are saying does not line up with the most ancient Scripture that is available for us to study in any language (The Aramaic).

This "thread" was started by others who wish the thread to stay on the subject of the thread.

I have started a new thread...that deals with this matter...if you would like to share your beliefs there...that is fine.
Thirdwoe Wrote:Will (the Texas Rat),

This is the general forum...we can talk about this here...and we can show you in the Peshitta, how what you are saying does not line up with the most ancient Scripture that is available for us to study in any language (The Aramaic).

This "thread" was started by others who wish the thread to stay on the subject of the thread.

I have started a new thread...that deals with this matter...if you would like to share your beliefs there...that is fine.


Forum Rulesby Paul Younan ? Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:50 pm

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Alan G77 Wrote:But Texas, it is you who brings new and strange doctrines to the faith brother, we have held the teachings since the beginning.

Texas, do you go and sacrifice a lamb for sin offerings? This was a requirement of the law.

No, this part of the Law (Sacrifices) was taken care off once and for all (not done away with), everything else still goes as well including the Priestly duties being carried out by Yahu-Shuah HaMoshiach in the Heavenly Temple of Yahuwah, even as we speak. So they (the priestly duties) are no longer needed to be attended to by the tribe of Levi anymore upon the face of this earth either, same way the sacrifices no longer are need to be performed. These are the only parts of the Law that Yahu-Shuah fulfilled or is fulfilling, everything else is still a go.

Alan G77, from now on I will not answer any doctrinal issues in this forum.

If you want to evangelize me we will have to do it else were. I have provided a link to my private forum where we can discus these as well as other issues: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://thetexasrat.freeforums.org/index.php">http://thetexasrat.freeforums.org/index.php</a><!-- m -->

You can also go to my webpage to learn about my idea of what the Gospel is about @: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://thetexasrat.webstarts.com/set_apart_days.html">http://thetexasrat.webstarts.com/set_apart_days.html</a><!-- m -->

Hope to see you there, but please keep it to textual issues here only, awmane.

will brinson: ferguson
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