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Shalom,

If the Peshitta is not a translation from the greek, then why the Peshitta has greek names on it?

Philipos, Andraus, etc, etc,...?!

What is the Aramaic way for Philipos and Andraus? and, why are they in the greek transliteration in the aramaic Peshitta?

I'm not trying to catch somebody, I just want to know the truth.

Shalom :-)
It has Greek names because people had Greek names... Peshitta antiquitism/primacy doesn't try to speak over and against any and all Greek influences that were very real and invasive in the first century CE. There are a great multitude of Greek city names, country names, people names, and words used in the Peshitta. One anomaly I've stumbled across is the appearance of [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]Sw=wz0[/font]??[Azotaws] in the Peshitta text, as Azwtov [Azotas] is a Greek transliteration of dwdH' [Ashdod], so one would expect to find [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]dwd40[/font]??[Ashdod] as it appears in the Peshitta Tanakh.
Shlama,

in addition to what Aaron has shared, consider this:

the presence of foreign words in the Greek manuscripts is never used as evidence against it being written in Greek, so we must be careful in how we logically approach the issue of foreign words in the text of the Peshitta. there are Latin words in the Greek manuscripts, as well as Sanskrit and Aramaic, but nobody really believes the NT was originally written in Latin or Sanskrit, right? so although there are those who might think the presence of foreign words in the Aramaic is evidence against its originality, the reality is that it is no proof at all, when you give it a little more thought and play out the scenario with other texts, as well. why would we demand from the Peshitta to see a textual landscape free of foreign influence if we don't demand it from the Greek, or Latin, etc.? it just makes no sense.

a few months ago i had some extensive online debate with an individual who was adamant that the presence of Greek in the Aramaic was valuable, and for all the explanations i gave, he never seemed to understand the fact that such a method of reasoning just doesn't work. if we apply that same reasoning back to the Greek texts, it quickly becomes clear just how much it is not a valid approach.

Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Agree.

Loanwords or names are not the hints for an origin.

THe peshitta has loanwords, but it is not full of 'barbarisms' ie. having Greek words, which are not officially used in Aramaic.

The Greek NT however, is full of barbarisms, non loanwords/phonetic translations. I can mention up to twenty words, which are not in official Greek dictionaries or set as 'origin uncertain' while those specific words were in the Peshitta (such as zizania).
Shlama,

the barbarisms are a good aspect to consider, as well.

additionally, it would be interesting to see a list of terms in the Greek manuscripts that are "new" to the Greek language, ie, the instances where the writer has apparently "built / constructed" a Greek word out of parts that before was not in use in Greek, in order to capture the idea from the Peshitta. i've noticed these from time to time in my studies, but unfortunately <!-- s:mad: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/mad.gif" alt=":mad:" title="Mad" /><!-- s:mad: --> i never made a list...

such a matter might even be deserving of its own topic at this forum, if it turned out there were a large enough spectrum of terms.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Burning one Wrote:Shlama,

the barbarisms are a good aspect to consider, as well.


such a matter might even be deserving of its own topic at this forum, if it turned out there were a large enough spectrum of terms.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Let's start with this. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Korban,
Effata
Gehenna
Zizania
Kofinas
Spuridas
Hosanna
Raka
Shakira
Abba
Here's some words that may fit that description (they should be double-checked; I've listed their Strong's Greek numbers):
  • mammon (3126)
  • maran atha (3134)
  • rabbi (4461)
  • rabboni (4462)
  • sarganei (4553)
  • sata (4568)

It looks like there are few to none beyond what distazo and I have listed.
Would 'Gaza' qualify as well? Not sure if that would be a Greek word at that time as well.
Gaza was the accepted spelling of 'Azah as found in the LXX. Proper nouns are unlikely to fit the category.
Shlama Distazo and Aaron,


thanks for the contributions. i think some more are:


l'wunta = Matt. 2:11 "frankincense"

wa = Matt. 23:13 "woe"

zupa = John 19:29 "hyssop"

sesa = Matt. 6:19 "moth" - yet there is possibly debate on whether Hebrew had this first or not

saqa = Luke 10:13 "sackcloth" - same note as above

Butza = Luke 16:19 "linen"

rahwuna = 2 Cor. 1:22 "pledge" - same note as above

Barbraya = Romans 1:14 "Barbarians" - i include this "proper name" as it seems to be that the Greeks misunderstood "son of the wilderness," in the Aramaic.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy


Distazo Wrote:Korban,
Effata
Gehenna
Zizania
Kofinas
Spuridas
Hosanna
Raka
Shakira
Abba

Aaron Wrote:mammon (3126)
maran atha (3134)
rabbi (4461)
rabboni (4462)
sarganei (4553)
sata (4568)
For rahvuna (Hellenization to arrabon), there are 3 times in which 'eiravon appears in the Tanakh, and for all three of these cases the LXX contains arrabon, which is why I didn't include it in my list. Are we only looking for words that have no precedent in the Septuagint or other contemporary works?

For anyone that wants to search for the appearance of words in the Apostolic Writings as they appear in the LXX, please visit this website: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/">http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/</a><!-- m --> The list I provided only gave words that do not make their way into the LXX. I also don't think that it's too useful to include glosses in the list.
Shlama akhi,


ah, thanks for the clarification on arrabon. i hadn't checked the LXX on any of the terms, so that would surely be a helpful source to narrow down any potential findings.

thanks for the link!

additionally,
i did a little more searching, going the opposite direction -- looking for Greek in the Hebrew TN"K, and actually came across a few Greek terms scattered around there, most notably in the ARAMAIC of the book of Daniel. now how about that? Greek loan-words appearing in the TN"K, and the majority i could find are in a book written in Aramaic, which just goes to show the influence of the Greek upon that language. the only other one i've been able to locate was in Proverbs, and appears more as a wordplay between the two languages, but is agreed upon as a definite nod to the Greek, so technically, it really doesn't even count if you want to be stringent. so to me, this just makes the point even further to EXPECT Greek loan-words in Aramaic, not to be surprised by them.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
Other transliterations

G5330 Pharisee (Separatist)
G955 Beliar (Belial) (2 Corinthians 6:15) (evil)
G3857 Paradeisos (2 Corinthians 12:4) (Garden, However, this seems Perzian)