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Full Version: My Apologies to Andrew Roth
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My name is Daniel if you havent remembered by now. Multiple times I have questioned you about the underlying text of MARI, its accuracy, the Western Five, the adulterous woman (pericopa something), etc. etc. and as I was browsing the forum just now, I came across your posting under "Whats Wrong with the Bauscher Codes?" (also started by me)...

Quote:So, does Mari talk about and compare the Peshitta and Greek on this passage? Of course it does. But do I add to the Aramaic later readings and pretend they are originals and promote a known artificiality as a Masorah?--NO WAY. I must keep the base Aramaic text as pure as I know how, but I am equally determined to discuss all major variants in the NT--and this is definitely a big one--in a way that allows the reader to make up his or her own mind. I think I have balanced these desires that may never be resolved and are somewhat in opposition to one another, though not always.

So I guess what I am saying is that if the choice is between explaining the record accurately and what I am comfortable with or know others are comfortable with, then comfort must be sacrificed for the sake of consistency. Sorry but that's just how it is.

How very true. You have put so much effort into trying to support truth, and where truth doesnt satisfy the vast majority (such as myself) asking for a perfect autograph text, you are at least honest enough to admit it. So, in saying that, I apologize for bugging you about your text and your efforts because I realize there is only so much that YOU as an individual can do. What is original, you have in MARI. What isnt, you may include, but you're honest enough to let us know that it isn't, unlike many other translators who leave the public out in the dark. Ive been ripped off by Trimm by purchasing his 60 dollar HRV and also by Bauscher for basing his codes on something that doesnt use proper logic, but supports universalism and Protestantism. (No disrespect intended to Dave for his work though, though, I'm just disappointed about his false promises for a perfect text.)

Like I said before, I'm a young 21 year old college student who went from being totally apathetic to religion, to Protesant Christan, and finally to Torah-observant and hebraically thinking (although my practice is not very good, I should admit that now lest I sound like a Pharisical hypocrite), and MARI is actually the perfect thing for me. Its culturally Hebraic, its Torah-observant, and its based on the best texts that history itself can provide. (And like I said before, whenever there is an issue regarding the text, you make sure to let us know.) So, my apologies for STRAINING AT THE GNAT like I usually do while swallowing camels, and thank you so much for your work as a scholar, and I will SURELY purchase MARI when I can afford it.
Shlama to you Akhi Daniel,

Apology more than accepted, but except for me feeling as I said that you made sweeping pronouncements about my work without seeing it (or a lot of it at least) I had no trouble with the main questioning that you are referring to. I recognize that this stuff is not easy. It was not easy for me when I started studying and it will not be easy for you or others. This is a paradigm shift if nothing else and paradigm shifts always encounter resistance. I don't mind explaining these things--sometimes I have to do so a little too often in which case I take a breath and then get back to it. This is a quote from the website, <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->:

Regardless if the reader is of Jewish, Messianic or Christian background, the AENT will become an important reference resource. For Jews who do not subscribe to Y'shua as Mashiyach (Ben Yoseph), they will discover a world of provocative ancient Jewish thought that is rarely discussed in Jewish circles. For Messianic Jews there are numerous ancient Aramaic terms and definitions that are presented with Hebrew cognates from the Tanakh (Old Testament) that puts much light on difficult or controversial verses. For Christians there is a wealth of insight and discussion on topics like the Melchisedec priesthood, the Acharit HaYamin (Latter Days), Grace, Trinity, Virgin Birth, Feminine Attributes, Judaizing, Legalism, the Name of Jesus, the origin of Christmas, Easter and Sunday, as well as insights into Spiritual Anointing, the Rapture and much more... discussed in more than 1700 detailed footnotes and 350 pages of appendix materials.

How is this translation different from all others? It is different because of WHO translated it, WHAT the base Aramaic text is, WHERE it was translated, WHEN it was translated, WHY it was translated and HOW it was translated. In other words, this Interlinear Bible is VERY DIFFERENT from all others; so much so that some are fearful that it may not be "the way it's supposed to be...".

See, we have seen this in advance.

As for Trimm, it was because of what he did that I started Mari in part. I wanted people to have balanced and not psuedo scholarship that ridculed the movement worldwide. And I also also wanted folks to get what they paid for in a timely manner.

In addition, I wanted the Nazarene community to have an NT that had their terminology and focus while also bringing as fair-minded a reading to the text as possible. If those two things sound contradictory, my answer is that I have not just dumped "biased" readings into a false homogenized English only text. I have shown the original text and explained the variants within that text, and even showed folks who care to how to begin reading Aramaic for themselves. That is the real point in the "revolution"--to bring to the lay person the ability to see this text in the light of day and see its differences so they don't put assertions of such solely on my sholders or Baucher or whomever else. They will complete Aramaic training on their own, but they can start it with Mari.

Mari is designed to as much as possible meet people where they are in the faith walk but to also have resources that will allow people to build on their understanding when THEY are ready to go. I can't just try to translate for folks where they are today. I need to think of where they may get to in decades from now, even when I am resting in the ground.

People ask me all the time, "Andrew, how will you change Christianity?" or "Andrew, how will you make this or that point when it is so controversial?" and my answer is the same. I have no intention of changing anything. I leave the change to the TEXT and the Ruach haKodesh to affect one soul at a time. My job is only to bring the text to the table. It is up to the rest of the world whether they open up that book and understand it. My role therefore has ended after I submitted it for print.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
So, I'm just curious Andrew-why don't you have any interest in doing the same thing for the Tanakh? I like MARI for the fact that I know it will give tons of insight on variant texts...but is there any Tanakh like it? Using a main base text but footnoting variances, and without any RABBINIC bias? I know I keep bringing this up, but only because I feel like this last missing piece is never really answered. Do you do the same as Christina and Ryan and just dip into different tanakhs for Bible study?
Shlama Akhi Daniel,

It's not that I don't have an interest in the Tanakh side. It's just that I viewed the NT side as being in greater need and did that first.

Now, after so many years, I am kind of catching my breath. I can't just work continuously at the level I have been.

Having said that, in recent days a partial answer in terms of the Tanakh that I would like to see has begun emerging, and I posted the details of that kind of Tanakh here a few days ago

The difficulties on the Tanakh side are wholly different than those with NT, and Tanakh therefore needs an entirely different approach to bring the ancient voices together, in some ways standardizing as the Masoretes did and in other ways letting the individual witnesses speak their piece.

In looking at my own Jewish traditions there are only two real answers. We can either have the world learn Hebrew and Aramaic (my preference really) so they can take a look at the full breadth of the mss record, targums, etc., OR, we can do a better job at an expanded interlinear that does justice to these things. To my mind, yes, there are plenty of Masoretic interlinears out there but no, the central problems have not been addressed there yet in my opinion.

I genuinely would prefer 6.2 billion folks being their own translators and going on the journey that I and some others have been on, through their own experience, rather than getting to extremes where translations are elevated as original and perfect. But such is not practical and yes, I am one of those people who is fortunate enough to be able to help out in the English language.

All I really ask in return is a boat load of patience. This work takes a lot of time, and even now I may not ever feel Mari is totally finished, so how then can I move on to Tanakh if I do? On the other hand, I may end up working with folks on Tanakh in some way, but if I do I need to live with the possibilities for a long while and digest the best from nearly infinite possibilites. I tell you right now though that even if Baruch and I were to decide today on the exact way to do Tanakh and all the arrangements were instantly lined up, that final product is at least 5-7 years in the future.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth