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In Smith's Bible Dictionary we read these words: "The cycle of religious feasts commencing with the Passover, depended not simply on the month, but on the moon; the 14th day of Abib (Nisan) was coincident with the full moon."

In E.E. Franke's booklet: 'The Resurrection of Christ On Saturday Not Sunday' he says:

"To count the time of the Passover in any year since its institution, it is only necessary to locate the day following the night of the first full moon after the vernal or spring equinox, which occurs on March 21st, our time, and we have the 14th day off Nisan, the day of the slaying of the Paschal lamb and also the day of the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ. I have before me as I write a report of the British Astronomer Royal, given by Mr. Hollis in which he says the paschal full moon in A.D. 31, occurred on Tuesday night, March 27th. I have before me a report from the Unites States Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., giving the dates and days of the week of the paschal full moons, from A.D. 24 to A.D. 38. It will be observed from the above that in the year of Christ's crucifixion (A.D. 31), the moon fulled on the night of Tuesday, March 27th, and consequently the day following this was Wednesday, March 28th, which answers to the 14th day of Nisan, the day on which our Lord was crucified. The following letter from the United States Naval Observatory, Washington, confirms the above. Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., January 16, 1919, Sir, in reply to your letter of January 15th, you are informed the Astronomical Full Moon occurred Tuesday, March 27, A.D. 31, 1hpm, Jerusalem time, Julian calendar. The time may be accepted to be correct within 2-3 hours by direction of the Superintendent, U.S. Naval Observatory, W.S. Eichelberger, Commander (Math, USN, Director, Nautical Almanac)."

People can talk till the cows come home about when Yeshua Rose from the tomb.

If you want my opinion, HERE'S PROOF, that Yeshua was Entombed on Wednesday.

IF the 3 day, and 3 night entombment ("The sign of Yonah) IS TRUE, that is, a literal full 72 hours, then the Sunday Resurrection falls/fails accordingly.

This is the most powerful evidence that I've ever seen for a Wednesday Entombment.

Now, a Wednesday Entombment does NOT necessarily make for a Saturday Resurrection, but IF 'The sign of Yonah' is literally true..........it makes for a Resurrection on what we think of as Saturday evening, almost a certainty.

I realize how foreign this is *TO CHRISTIANITY*.

But perhaps it's NOT so foreign to true Messianic and/or Nazarene thinking.

I'm NOT trying to start a war, I'm not.

But what if what we've all been told for 2,000 years is off by a day, or even a few hours?

Would we be able to admit it?

Shlama, Albion
Akhan Albion,

Who cares?

The Aramaic bible says that the tomb was empty when they visited it on Sunday morning. What's the big deal? Why is this such an issue? I really don't get it.
August 7, 2008

I guess it is interesting to consider that our traditional view of Holy Week is incorrect, but it doesn't affect our faith.

Otto
Hi albion, I have also commented on this, in the 'first day of the week' post, sean
ograabe Wrote:August 7, 2008

I guess it is interesting to consider that our traditional view of Holy Week is incorrect, but it doesn't affect our faith.

Otto

Akhan Otto,

Was He not risen on Sunday? If He was not risen on Sunday, disregard your Aramaic bible because that's what it says.

It is very clear from Mark 16:2 that they went to the tomb as the sun was rising, in other words "dawn." The Sabbath actually ended on the previous sunset. That gave Meshikha at least 8 hours to have risen before they got to the tomb, still on Sunday. Also, when we read verse 9:

Mark 16:9 - "b'Shapra den b'Khad b'Shabba Qam", "He arose in the morning on Sunday"

It doesn't get any clearer than that. He arose on Sunday morning.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with our traditional view of Holy Week.

+Shamasha Paul
August 8, 2008

Dear Paul:

Your interlinear of Mark 16:2 reads: "They came to the cemetery as the sun was rising at early morning of the first day tof the week." That doesn't seem to tell us anything about exactly how much earlier or when the resurrection occurred.

Likewise Mark 16:9 has "At early morning of the first of the week he had risen...." That seems to be relating an event that had already occurred. Hence, we apparently cannot be certain from the text exactly when the resurrection occurred. It may have been on Saturday, but the women waited until after the sabbath to visit the tomb.

Am I missing something here?

Best regards,

Otto
Shlama Akhi Otto,

Not really missing anything at all, it's more of you are open to an argument from silence. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But it is an argument from silence.

He may have risen on Saturday, or ..... he may have risen in the 10-12 hours of Sunday darkness before the dawn when they visited the tomb. Remember that Sunday began when the sun went down Sabbath evening. Say, for the sake of argument, 9PM Saturday our reckoning today in the U.S.A. Back then, that would have been considered Sunday morning. To us, Sunday morning begins the second after 11:59:59 PM on Saturday night. Back then, it was a couple of hours earlier.

So He could have arisen on what we, today, call "Saturday night". Let's say 11:30 PM on Saturday.

BUT, and this is the key, that is considered to be Sunday, not Saturday, according to the Semitic keeping of time.

I think if God wanted us to know about a Sabbath resurrection, the scriptures would have been a little clearer about it. There's no compelling reason to believe that He arose on Saturday (before Sundown, say at 6 PM). It's an argument from silence.

+Shamasha Paul
Hi guys, this post is indeed interesting to me from the point that it coincides with the topic I posted re 'the first day of the week'...
Paul, you say 'who cares'. YHWH says He cares or He would not have His 'appointed times'. Yeshua gave one sign to 'disbelieving' Israel, the sugn of Jonah. The sign of Jonah clearly states in Biblical Hebrew '3 days and 3 nights'...In many instances in the brit HaChadasha He states this message to His talmidim.
And yes, before everyone throws their toys out of the cot, He did rise and that's all that matters! In my attempt to have clarified the translation from the Aramaic to English I specifically singled out Mattai 28:1 knowing that there has always been much controversy especially the 'Sabbath' versus the 'Sunday' (or first day of the week) translations. Christianity has stood on the 'first day resurrection theory' for a very long time. But is it true? Marcion himself has much responsibility here in his act to 'remove anything Jewish' from the scriptures.
Back to my point though. There is much debate that the Aramaic text (here) has primacy over other texts. But to be pragmatic, does it? This subject has provoked many points of view but YHWH has the final say. Yes, it is an 'argument from silence'.
Paul, when you say 'you really don't get it' I must state that the study and conversation thus far reveals much debate BUT we as always have to defer to the scriptures. When we do this we ask 'which scriptures?' Do we faithfully rely on the inerrant words from the Textus Receptus or use our Bible hermeneutics to discover original meanings. I have learned (for example) of the wonderful Aramaic idioms which have made my understanding of scripture much clearer especially in the light of culture, language, and contemporary thinking. Thankfully, YHWH has written His words concerning the observance of Pesach.
Albion, than you for raising this subject but I shall now return to my post for some further discussion...

Shalom brothers (and sisters?),
Mark
markt Wrote:Shalom brothers (and sisters?),
Mark

Yes there are sisters here, LOL.
Shlama Forum:
See my next post.
Dear Stephen,

You said:

"Now I know that to Seventh Day Adventists as well as to some Torah Observant Messianics, a Shabbat resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiakh is very compelling."

Actually, the Seventh Day Adventist's believe in a FRIDAY crucifixion, and a SUNDAY Resurrection.

It seems that they have trouble counting to 3 too. lol

It's The Church of God (Seventh Day) that believes in a Wednesday crucifixion and a late Sabbath Resurrection of Yeshua.

Both the Seventh Day Adventist's and the COG (Seventh Day) came out of the Millerite Movement in the 18th Century.

Later, they split into two separate and opposing movements, because of "the visions" of Mrs. Ellen G. White.

Shlama in Yeshua, Albion
I think this is so ridiculous that we are counting 72 hours here, I mean REALLY PEOPLE.

Would 10 seconds either way have you all up in tizzies? Would an hour either way destroy your literal interpretation and make you lose faith? It has to be exactly 72 hours and ZERO seconds? To the atomic clock accurate? EXACTLY?

I'm out of this conversation....next topic you should debate is how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, literal BIBLICALLY supported facts only.

Sheesh. You literalists make the Wahhabis look sane.

+Shamasha Paul
Au Contraire Paul,

If Yeshua told us that THE ONLY SIGN that He would give of His being Messiah was "three days and three nights" within the heart of the earth, I would think it very important.

It's NOT the amount of minutes, or seconds, but His being "three days and three nights"..............within the heart of the earth.

THIS is the PROOF of His BEING MESSIAH.

Perhaps I'm just simple minded though.

Shlama, Albion

P.S. I can see nothing productive that can come out of comparing us to Muslim terrorists.

Could you not find something other than Muslim terrorists to compare us to?

Is this merely inflammatory speech, said perhaps in anger, or do you really mean this??
Shlama all---

I would not like to see this get into a heated debate. But I will say this: The issue is such that my publisher and I decided to actually give differing opinions on the matter, competing essays on the timing of the resurrection. My only clue to you all on where I stand is to look at Mark 16:2 and then verse 16:9. If these verses are authoritative to you, I think there is only one way to read the Aramaic. Y'shua rose on Bikurrim. Anyone who is interested may email me privately.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Shlama Forum:
Mark 16:9 is conclusive.

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"But in the morning of the first of the week (he) arose,
and was first seen by Mariam Magdalita,
she who had seven demons cast out from her."

Shlama,
Stephen
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