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ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Well, it isn't intended to be read as "MarYa YahGivesLife", ... ... ...
"MarYah Yehoshua" is meant to be understood as "MarYah He Will Save".


ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:I'm sure when Aramaic speakers say "MarYa Eshu'", they don't think of it in terms of definition, similar to English speakers (even if they know the definitions of their names) think of names as separate from normal words.
I am just as sure as you are that most people do not give the definition of names any thought what soever, but this is not a good excuse as to try and change The Anointed One's Name to mean what ever suits one fancies.

The plane truth is that This Name has a definition whether people know it or not, it is "He Will Save", and none other.



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Thirdwoe Wrote:
Quote:the Anointed One's Name does not by any means physically have any form of The Divine Name within It.

Yeho shuah

What's up with that Y H ??? What do those letters stand for then, Will?

And what about the Y "Yhod" in the Aramaic name form Yeshu' ?

Shlama,
Chuck
As for the Y in the Aramaic transliteration (i.e. - Yeshua) of this Hebrew name (i.e. - Yehoshua) I tell you the truth that it serves the same purpose as the letter J in the English transliterations of this name, which basically is to carry the sound of the original language over into the new one (with 100% accuracy). These letters in the languages that have made transliterations of a foreign name do not stand for anything other than representing the sound of the original name.

And as for the definition of any transliteration one has to look back to the original language in which the name came from and simply carry over/apply it definition as accurately as possible, hence "He Will Save".

H3442
Yeshua
For H3091; he will save;
Note how the definition here is that carried over from the original Hebrew name, ever though this Aramaic transliteration lack the H to denote a male doing the action. One might ask "then would that change the definition of the name" and I say only to the trained Hebrew ears, yes it would, but not particularly to the marginally literate foreigners because they are supposed to just (simply) carry the definition over the best they can translate it.

G2424
Iesous
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:
Note hear that this Greek transliteration, in which the English transliteration of Jesus was derived, is shown to be clearly a Hebrew name to start with, and that of Yehoshua. And being we know for a fact that the name Yehoshua came about by Moshay[Moses] adding a Y to the front of the name Hoshayah[Hosea], then anyone that would truly do an honest investigation would understand that the y in this name denotes a future tense to the verb it is affixed to.

H3091
yehoshua yehoshua
yeh-ho-shoo'-ah, yeh-ho-shoo'-ah
Again, this name was actually Hoshayah[Hosea/Oshea] to start with and Moshay[Moses] simply/only added a Y to the front of it.

Num_13:16 TheseH428 are the namesH8034 of the menH376 whichH834 MosesH4872 sentH7971 to spy outH8446 (H853) the land.H776 And MosesH4872 calledH7121 OsheaH1954 the sonH1121 of NunH5126 Jehoshua.H3091 (KJV with Strong's Numbers)

H1954
Hoshea
ho-shay'-ah
From H3467; deliverer; Hoshea, the name of five Israelites: - Hosea, Hoshea, Oshea.

H3467
yasha
yaw-shah'
A primitive root; properly to be open, wide or free, that is, (by implication) to be safe; causatively to free or succor: - X at all, avenging, defend, deliver (-er), help, preserve, rescue, be safe, bring (having) salvation, save (-iour), get victory.


So in the name Yehoshua there is only one root in it and that is that of an action word (i.e. - yasha). The Y is simply a prefix to denote a future tense to the verb of yasha (i.e.- He Will Save). An elementary book covering the Hebrew Linguistic Rules of Grammar will clearly show this.

As for the H it is there to denote a male is the one doing the action of the verb (i.e. - He Will Save). An elementary book covering the Hebrew Linguistic Rules of Grammar will clearly show this as well.


Now for those the sake of convenience to those new unto this thread I have re-posted the rest of the details covering why this Name can not have the Short form of the Divine Name within it here below:

The Name of The Anointed One not only is the same as Yehoshua son of Nun as prophesied in ZekharYahu [Zechariah] 6:9-13, as all scholars worth their degree will readily admit that "The Branch" is a prophetic reference to the coming Anointed One Who would be our Eternal Priest and King. See: YeshaYahu [Isaiah] 11:1-7, YirmeeYahu [Jeremiah] 23:5 and 33:15-16. But they will also just as readily admit that it was derived from the name Hoshayah [Hosea/Oshea] by simply adding a lone yohd unto the front of it.

Hoshayah is the root yasha inflected to denote a past tense action, with a Heh added to the front of it to denote a male doing the action - i.e.-"he saved". This is the meaning in which Hoshayah's parents meant to convey when they named their son. The second letter waw [i.e.-o] in the name Hoshayah is not the waw in the Tetragrammaton (i.e. - YHWH), nor even that which follows the Short Form of The Divine Name (i.e. - Yahu), as it is merely the yohd in yasha modified due to the inflection of the past tense. Common sense dictates that there is no possible presence of The Divine Name here (i.e. - the Trigrammaton), as there is no yohd present at the beginning of this name. (By the way there was and is still no such thing as "The Trigrammaton" either! When you see "Yahu" at the end of a name it is merely the Short Form of The Divine Name with a "u" suffixed to it to denote the word "our" as in "Yah our ___".)


Then Moshay [Moses] came along and added (only) a yohd to the front of the name Hoshayah to switch the inflection from past tense into a future tense [i.e. - "he will save"](see: Numbers 13:16. If your translation has Oshea in this verse know that it is simply a result of different English transliterations and is the same in the Hebrew Texts as all the other instances of Hoshayah [Hosea]).

Now just because there is a yohd, heh, and a waw in the beginning of this name now does not mean these letters are rooted in The Divine Name or the alleged Trigrammaton form thereof. And all the speculations as to such can not by any stretch of the imagination change this FACT!

The FACTS are that the yohd was added by Moshay to the front of the name Hoshayah to change the inflection not to add any sense of the Divine Name unto it, and the heh was already due to Hoshayah's parents adding it to the root yasha so as to convey a male doing the action of having saved (long before Moshay ever thought to add the yohd). And again the waw is the yohd of yasha morphed as mentioned already to create the inflection of past tense (and yes this waw was in the name Hoshayah long before the yohd was added to it as well). So you see neither the yohd, heh, nor waw in the name Yehoshuah has anything to do with the presence of a Trigrammaton (which, again, by the way is the Sort form of the Divine Name with the suffix "waw/u" added to it to simply denote "our Yah ___" or "Yah our ___", as it has nothing to do with the waw in the long form of the Divine Name (i.e.- YHWH. That's right there is no so-called Trigrammaton, NEVER WAS NEVER WILL BE).

Yes, looks can be deceiving, and this is especially the case with this name, and also that of Yehudah[Judah], at least to people that are just learning that our Creator has a Name, and that it is YHWH, but are not yet familiar with the Hebrew language and its rules of grammar and usages.

First off if one is to assume that the waw is part of a mythical Trigrammaton they then must also believe that the root following is not that of yasha (i.e. - salvation) as any chance of the root being that of yasha is destroyed when they removed the yohd from the root yasha in this name unto the supposed fathom Trigrammaton, because the Hebrew rules of grammar do not allow for part of one root to be confiscated to produce something else. So if the waw was actually part of a Trigrammaton (again which would be the short form of the Divine Name with a waw suffixed to denote "our YaH" and anything to do with a supposed fathom Trigrammaton) the left over letters would/could not convey salvation in/of any sense, or reflection thereof. Once one removes the waw from the root of yasha to support the Divine Name THEORY they have effectively destroyed any hope of salvation within this name, leaving shuah as the root which carries the meaning of "has riches" or "cries for help". And while YHWH does indeed have riches, so to speak, that is not what this name was originally intended to define. In order to retain the idea of salvation in verb tense (i.e. - save) the waw must remain with the root in which it was originated from, and that being the morphed yohd of yasha to create Hoshayah (i.e. -"he saved). As also in the name Yehoshuah as "he will save".

Jesus is an English transliteration of the Latin transliteration of the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic transliteration of the ORIGINAL Hebrew name Yehoshua. Joshua is an English transliteration of the Hebrew Name Yehoshua as well. Iesous in the Greek is the transliteration used for both the Aramaic transliteration (i.e. Yeshua) and for the ORIGINAL Hebrew name Yehoshua. Despite the FACT THAT MANY A BAD TRANSLITERATIONS HAVE OCCURRED OVER THE YEARS Yehoshua is the correct English transliteration of the original prophesied Hebrew Name of The Anointed One. Yet still some will say that Yeshua is actually the name of The Anointed One, but, the problem with that is that it is missing the heh for he and the waw which is apart of the root yasha whereby to the trained ear in the Hebrew language the so-called name Yeshua is missing key sounds to denote "HE will SAVE", leaving just a "future" tense of either "has riches" or "cries for help". No three ways about it! Simply by linguistics along only the full form of the Hebrew name denotes "HE WILL SAVE" (see: {Mat_1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His Name : Yehoshua , for HE SHALL SAVE His people from their sins.).

Many people will try not to receive this teaching because they either do not want to let go of the poor transliterations (mis-nomers of the past), or because they have fallen for a THEORY that The Anointed One's Name has to PHYSICALLY have His Father's Name as a part of His. And with the first three letters seemingly being the exact same letters as that in His Father's Divine Name it is easy to fall for this THEORY. I myself was teaching anybody that would listen that The Anointed One's Name was YaHU-Shuah. But when The Anointed One said that He came in His Father's Name He did not say that His Name had His Father's Name within His Name. And when one takes into consideration that the word in Hebrew for name (shem) can also be defined as authority it should become very evident that He came in His Father's Authority - not the actual Name Itself.

The Anointed One said: "I am come in my Father's Authority, and you receive me not:
if another shall come in his own authority, him you will receive". {YoKhawnawn [John] 5:43}

Considering the context of this story in YoKhawnawn Chapter 5 the Yehudish leaders where not disagreeing with Yehoshua as to what his Name was or how to spell it, but rather why Yehoshua was doing the things He was doing. And Yehoshua was answering the Yehudish leaders why he had just healed a man. That He did so because it was of His Father's will that He do such things. The conversation had nothing to do with His Name or that of His Father's, but rather His Authority to do such things as healing on the Shabbawth. Yehoshua was telling them that He had the Authority of His Father to do these things, and that if another person was doing things by their own authority they would not be having this same problem with them as they were having with Him.

All the while Yehoshua did speak and teach others to speak the Divine Name of His Father no doubt. But still this does not mean that His Name had to physically bare within it any physical form of the Divine Name.

The Theory that the Anointed One's Name has to physically have a written / phonetic form of His Father's Divine Name within it is built on the same type of conjecture that the Lunar Shabbawth Theory was built off of. Each Theory has Scriptures in which to build their case - all the while neither has any factual bases. Keep in mind many an idea has been fostered in which one can use Scriptures to try and support if one takes the Scriptures out of context, and denies actual facts in the matter. Happens all the time.

So remember the linguistics of this Name were in play thousands of years before the above mentioned THEORY ever came about. In fact this THEORY is not more than 90 years old (upon the birth of The Sacred Name Movement). There is no other writings any where that taught this Name had the Physical Short Form (or a so-called Trigrammaton) of The Divine Name within it. And when considering that it came about nearly 1,910 years after The Resurrection of The Anointed One one should wonder what was the common belief pertaining to this Name before the 1930s.

When one does an honest investigation into the Hebrew language's rules of grammar they will come to see that this name only appears to have the so-called "Trigrammaton" of the Divine Name within it. Many fluent Hebrew speakers have never even bothered to consider how the linguistic rules apply to this name. Many have just taken the definition within the Strong's dictionary at face value that the name means "Yah-Saves". But again it simply means "He Will /Shall Save" referring to The Anointed One not His Father YHWH. Even though technically Yehoshua is the Arm of YHWH in which we will be saved. And back when Moshay first called Hoshayah "Yehoshua" Moshay was referring that Hoshayah through his actions of TRUSTING IN YHWH would be the vessel in which YHWH would save the Hebrew Nation.
Ok...so we have in the Aramaic Text ---> "MarYa Yehoshua" = Master YHWH, He will save. "Yehoshua" "...He will save His People" Matt 1:21

And, by the way...my "Arm", is part of me. If my Arm rescues you from the burning fire...it is Me, I, who rescued/saved you from the burning fire, not someone else. My arm does not belong to another, it is my arm, and I do the saving with my own arm.

Isa 43:11 tells us that there is only one Saviour, not two. "I, I am MarYa, and besides Me, there is no Saviour.

Isa 45:5 tells us the same thing, and revealing that MarYa is indeed Alaha, who is our Saviour. "I am MarYa, and there is no other; apart from me there is no Alaha. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,.."

Luke 2:11 tells us who Yehoshua is then ---> "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is MarYa The Messiah."

1st Cor. 12:3 says we can't accept that fact, unless The Holy Spirit reveals it to us. "...no one can say ?Yehoshua is MarYa? except by The Holy Spirit."

Shlama,
Chuck

..
Chuck, you know better than to try and start theological based arguments here on this form <!-- s:whaasup: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/whaasup.gif" alt=":whaasup:" title="Whaasup" /><!-- s:whaasup: -->
(see: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=612#p3468">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=612#p3468</a><!-- l --> or as shown here below):

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by Paul Younan ? Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:50 pm

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By the way it is good to see you understand The Anointed One's Name. <!-- s:inlove: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/inlove.gif" alt=":inlove:" title="In Love" /><!-- s:inlove: -->
The Messiah has many names, and in many forms...and one of them is YHWH, (Yahweh) being the great I AM, who spoke with Moses on the Mountain, both in Arabia and in Israel.

I am happy to show what The Aramaic Text says, in regard to who The Messiah IS. The Word of ELOHIM, manifested in the flesh. And The Word who is both with, and IS ELOHIM... see John 1:1.

If we just had the Greek translation to go on...the water would not be so clear as to who The Messiah truly is! I am a firm believer in Peshitta primacy. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Shlama,
Chuck

.
There is much heat about name of God.
Personally, I do not want to get into theology as was a remark but from linguistic
point of view I have question since I was not seriously interested in it before.
I do not agree that "Mar'ya" = YHWH in the term of equivalent but in the term of
similarity.
YHWH is real name of God.
Mar = Lord.
What is YA?
Any solid proof?
Am sorry if it was answered before but duno where to find it.
Quote: post by bknight ? Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:06 am

Shlama all,

For your consideration: 1 Corinthians 12:3 from the GNT reads "no man can say 'Jesus is kyrios' except by the Holy Spirit." The word appears as Maryah (lord YHVH) in Peshitta.

The Greek version of this verse contradicts several instances in the gospel, here are some notable ones:

Mat. 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says unto me 'kyrios, kyrios' will enter the kingdom of heaven.... many will say unto me in that day, 'kyrios, kyrios...' and I will say unto them, 'I never knew you...'" Peshitta has Mari (my master).

How can Yeshua say to these people "I never knew you" if they have the Ruach ha Kodesh? But if they don't have the Holy Spirit, how are they able to call him Kyrios? This is a contradiction in the Greek, but not Aramaic.

Mat. 25:44-46 "and they shall answer him saying, 'Kyrios, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or naked or in prison, that we did not minister to you?' ... and these shall go away into everlasting punishment..." Peshitta has in this verse Maran (our master).

This is very clear. There were to be individuals on the day of judgment who were addressing Yeshua as "lord" but who would be sent into everlasting punishment. This is a direct contradiction of 1 Corinthians 12:3 "no man can say Jesus is lord except by the Holy Spirit."

Peshitta clarifies for us, even though these individuals are calling Yeshua "Mari" or "Maran", they are unable to call him Mar-YAH, because they do not have the Holy Spirit. A proper translation of this verse could read: "No man is able to say, Yeshua is YHVH, except by the Ruach haKodesh." Any lesser translation contradicts the greater testimony of the New Testament.

Shlama,
Brian
IPOstapyuk Wrote:There is much heat about name of God.
Personally, I do not want to get into theology as was a remark but from linguistic
point of view I have question since I was not seriously interested in it before.
I do not agree that "Mar'ya" = YHWH in the term of equivalent but in the term of
similarity.
YHWH is real name of God.
Mar = Lord.
What is YA?
Any solid proof?
Am sorry if it was answered before but duno where to find it.
Mar Ephraem (4th century), instead of defining MarYah, said it's an acronym which stands for:
Meem: Marutha ("Adonship")
Resh: Rabbutha (?Mightyness/Grandeur, Splendor, Greatness?)
Yodh-Aleph: Ethya ("Self-Existence')
Here Mar Ephraem tells us plainly that he believed the Yohd-Aleph (which are the only two letters he grouped together in the acronym) stood for "Self-Existent" which is a clear reference within the Hebrew language to the Divine Name (English transliteration: YHWH) or the Short Form thereof (YH/Yah).

In order to gain a good understanding as to why MarYa is not the emphatic of lord (i.e. - THE Lord) read the following post from Paul Younan's response on page 8 all the way thru page 14:
<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2569&hilit=Marya&start=105#p17068">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2569&hilit=Marya&start=105#p17068</a><!-- l -->
Notice that the Aramaic names of Isaiah and Elijah (Eshaiya and Eliya) don't include the "heh" at the end of the name, yet the "Ya" at the end still stands for "Yahweh"

Eliyahu (Hebrew)= Alef-Lamed-Yod-Heh-Waw

Eliya (Aramaic)= Alef-Lamed-Yod-Alef

So, MarYa, does seem to just be a variant of Yahweh in the Syriac Aramaic dialect. The Hebrew short form of the Tetragrammaton (Yah) is spelled as "Ya" in Aramaic. What is "Ya", a previous poster asked? "Ya" is the Aramaic version of "Yah", which is short for Yahweh (see Psalm 68:4 for an example of this shorter form in the Hebrew).
@The Texas RAT

I read some of your post and I am in agreement that the name of our Savior is Yehoshua. A lot of people believe that the name of the LORD is Yahweh, when this pronunciation come from the Apostolic Fathers in the 4th Century. This is mainly a Samaritan pronunciation, but never recorded by the Hebrews. Other thing that I see in the grammar is that YAH is only in a final form, but not as the initial form. I cannot find any name starting with YAH or YAHU, but there are other names that start with the YEHO:

Strong's H3091 - Yehowshuwa`
Strong's H3092 - Yehowshaphat
Strong's H3090 - Yehowshab`ath
Strong's H3089 - Yehowsheba
Strong's H3088 - Yehowram
Strong's H3087 - Yehowtsadaq
Strong's H3086 - Yehow`addiyn
Strong's H3085 - Yehow`addah
Strong's H3083 - Yehownathan
Strong's H3082 - Yehownadab
Strong's H3080 - Yehowyariyb
Strong's H3079 - Yehowyaqiym
Strong's H3077 - Yehowyada`
Strong's H3076 - Yehowchanan
Strong's H3075 - Yehowzabad

So Marya will be correct, because it is a final form of the name ending with Yah. Do we have two forms of the tetragramaton? A final form? and a initial form? Because if you search the meaning of this names the meaning is referring to God. So if the name of the LORD is Yahweh, how all this names can contain the initial name YEHO instead of YAH or YAHU?

Strong's H3414 - Yirmeyah
Strong's H452 - 'Eliyah
Strong's H3470 - Yesha`yahu

If you see, there are another time final forms not initial forms.
YEHOWAH?
carlosmendoza Wrote:Do we have two forms of the tetragramaton? A final form? and a initial form?

carlosmendoza Wrote:"... ... ... how all this names can contain the initial name YEHO instead of YAH or YAHU?

Strong's H3414 - Yirmeyah
Strong's H452 - 'Eliyah
Strong's H3470 - Yesha`yahu
I do not know exactly as to why the "Yeho" is at the beginning in the names shown above and Yah is at the end of such names, excerpt I do believe that YHWH=YeHoWaH as the long form and YH=YaH as the short form [take the middle (i.e.-aHoW) out and you get Yah]. Yet whatever the reasoning is in the names with the Divine Name presence in the beginning of them has nothing to do with why the Anointed One's Name has "Yeho" at the beginning of it.

The following two URLs espouse Hebrew evidence as to the Divine Name rather than that of the Samaritan, Greek, and Latin stuff:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/110591755/d01-Introduction-to-the-Divine-Name">http://www.scribd.com/doc/110591755/d01 ... ivine-Name</a><!-- m -->
and
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/110591765/d02-the-Divine-Name-Dissertation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/110591765/d02 ... ssertation</a><!-- m -->
This says it all...

...Alaha has also greatly exalted Him, and He has given Him The Name which is greater than all names, that in The Name of Yehoshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven, and in The Earth, and which is under The Earth, and every tongue shall confess that Yehoshua The Messiah, is MarYa, unto the glory of Alaha, His Father. Phil 2:9-11
Amen, Brother Chuck! I personally believe "Yahweh" is the most likely the pronunciation of "YHWH". "Yehowah" originates from the Masoretic scribes putting the segol and patach vowel pointings under the Tetragrammaton in order for it to read as either "Adonai" or "Elohim", so as to preserve the secrecy of HaShem (The Name) of God and ensure that it isn't taken in vain.
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Amen, Brother Chuck! I personally believe "Yahweh" is the most likely the pronunciation of "YHWH". "Yehowah" originates from the Masoretic scribes putting the segol and patach vowel pointings under the Tetragrammaton in order for it to read as either "Adonai" or "Elohim", so as to preserve the secrecy of HaShem (The Name) of God and ensure that it isn't taken in vain.


Shlama,


are you familiar with the other Masoretic pronunciations of YEHWAH, YEHWEEH, YEHOWEEH, YAHWAH, etc.? what are your thoughts on the reasons for those? YEHOWAH is the most commonly found of the variant Masoretic pronunciations, but these others deserve an explanation, don't you think?

something i've also pondered is why the Peshitta AN"K goes with MarYa only. and YAHU appears as a theomorphic prefix in certain names in the Peshitta, like YAHUSHAPHAT instead of YEHOSHAPHAT. it is intriguing...


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
I didn't know about the other pronunciations, Brother. That's interesting!
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