Quote:I tried my best to stay clear of you since your last PM to me. Remember how you threatened to get me banned in your private message to me?
A former member of this forum called the Peshitta a 'whore.' Paul immediately expelled him. You, among other condescending comments, compared Islam on a forum with 'Bible believers' to 'pornography.' This is offensive to me. Why shouldn't you be expelled for this crime against the forum?
Quote:It was you who are taking offense at my statements which are not meant to criticize your religion but stating the facts about persecution of the Assyrian people.
Islam has nothing to do with the persecution of the Assyrian people. Nor is Christianity responsible for the persecution of the Falasha in Ethiopia or the several thousand lynchings of Black men. Get that through your head quickly, please.
Quote:When you demanded proofs from me I showed you Hadith and you're offended by your own Hadith. Whether you accept Hadith or not it is not my problem.
I do accept Ahadith
now. However, I only accept Ahadith with the soundest of chains of transmission which can absolutely positively be traced back to the Prophet. With all that said, al-Bukhari is the most authentic according to scholars.
But rather or not the Hadith you've quoted is strong, weak, or fabricated, you've provided no substantial,
historical (what actually
happened evidence) to
prove that Jews and Christians were really expelled from the Arabian Peninsula.
The Jews
In 622, Muhammad made the following treaties with four tribes of Jews within the Arabian Peninsula:
???In the name of Allah (The One True God) the Compassionate, the Merciful. This is a document from Muhammad, the Prophet, governing the relation between the Believers from among the Qurayshites (i.e., Emigrants from Mecca) and Yathribites (i.e., the residents of Medina) and those who followed them and joined them and strived with them. They form one and the same community as against the rest of men.
???No Believer shall oppose the client of another Believer. Whosoever is rebellious, or seeks to spread injustice, enmity or sedition among the Believers, the hand of every man shall be against him, even if he be a son of one of them. A Believer shall not kill a Believer in retaliation of an unbeliever, nor shall he help an unbeliever against a Believer.
???Whosoever among the Jews follows us shall have help and equality; they shall not be injured nor shall any enemy be aided against them.... No separate peace will be made when the Believers are fighting in the way of Allah.... The Believers shall avenge the blood of one another shed in the way of Allah ....Whosoever kills a Believer wrongfully shall be liable to retaliation; all the Believers shall be against him as one man and they are bound to take action against him.
???The Jews shall contribute (to the cost of war) with the Believers so long as they are at war with a common enemy. The Jews of Banu Najjar, Banu al-Harith, Banu Sa'idah, Banu Jusham, Banu al-Aws, Banu Tha'labah, Jafnah, and Banu al-Shutaybah enjoy the same rights and priviledges as the Jews of Banu Aws.
???The Jews shall maintain their own religion and the Muslims theirs. Loyalty is a protection against treachery. The close friends of Jews are as themselves. None of them shall go out on a military expedition except with the permission of Muhammad, but he shall not be prevented from taking revenge for a wound.
???The Jews shall be responsible for their expenses and the Believers for theirs. Each, if attacked, shall come to the assistance of the other.
???The valley of Yathrib (Medina) shall be sacred and inviolable for all that join this Treaty. Strangers, under protection, shall be treated on the same ground as their protectors; but no stranger shall be taken under protection except with consent of his tribe....No woman shall be taken under protection without the consent of her family.
Whatever difference or dispute between the parties to this covenant remains unsolved shall be referred to Allah and to Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah. Allah is the Guarantor of the piety and goodness that is embodied in this covenant. Neither the Quraysh nor their allies shall be given any protection.
???The contracting parties are bound to help one another against any attack on Yathrib. If they are called to cease hostilities and to enter into peace, they shall be bound to do so in the interest of peace; and if they make a similar demand on Muslims it must be carried out except when the war is agianst their religion.
???Allah approves the truth and goodwill of this covenant. This treaty shall not protect the unjust or the criminal. Whoever goes out to fight as well as whoever stays at home shall be safe and secure in this city unless he has perpetrated an injustice or commited a crime.... Allah is the protector of the good and God-fearing people.???
The Jews of Arabia, however, broke this covenant several times in favor of the pagan Quraish.
The Christians
In 628, Muhammad, through his scribe, says:
This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily
I, the servants, the helpers, and
my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah!
I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to
destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected.
They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).
Quote:I do not go to Islamic forums to attack Islamic religion or offended by Muslims criticizing Christians or Jews in Islamic forums. So, why are you easily offended by the facts that I posted from "Christianity Today"?
This is not anti-Islam web sites:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www2.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/019_smt.html#019_4366">http://www2.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/musl ... l#019_4366</a><!-- m -->
It is taken from International Islamic University of Malaysia web site. I am sure the Islamic Professors there are more knowledgable than you regarding Islamic faith. Why don't you debate them instead? Why don't you kindly ask them to remove the Hadith since they are false?
Only 20 percent of the Muslim population is in the Near East. The rest are are scattered across the world, from China to Latin America. Therefore, to use the word 'Muslim' in the article's context is to associate the crimes of
many,
not all, modern-day Arabs to all Muslims.
Quote:The crucifixion of Yeshua Meshikha is offensive to your Islamic faith too. The message of the cross is offensive to Islam too. The beliefs that Yeshua is the Divine Son of God is offensive to Islamic faith too. Are you going to be provoked by that too when we followers of Yeshua discuss about the crucifixion of our Meshikha here?
No, I will not be provoked. But if you can talk about his crucifixion and divinity, then so can I. My view is just as valid. You know why? Because this is not a Christian forum!
Quote:Last time you threatened to get me banned. Are you threatening to beat me up now? Do I understand you correctly?
Mentally, yes. Face to face, I'd have you sit down at my table in the kitchen. Then I'd go upstairs to bring down my suitcase of every
source I have. What would you be able to say in face of reproductions purchased from the British Library?
That's why I'm always broke.
Quote:That really shows your immaturity. Let me play your game for a while... Do you think I am a newcomer here just because I signed up as member later than you? <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> RFOL
My comment has nothing to do with maturity. You simply have no right to come here and dictate what can and cannot be said here. If I, a Muslim, want to debate with Paul about the Diatessaron, I will. If I, a Muslim, want to debate with him the inimitability of the Qu'ran and thousands of Assyrian Christians who abandoned Syriac for Arabic in order to learn the Qu'ran, I will.
Quote:Well, I forgot. You are Paul Younan's friend. You can get me banned. Go ahead and persuade him to ban me.
I don't want you banned. I want an open apology as I gave to Andrew.
Quote:I might be a "newcomer" here and not contributing much to this forum like others or in your eyes as much as you do but I am sure many newcomers out there are contributing to promote the Peshitta more than you do - i.e "newcomers" or "Johnnys come lately" like Christopher Lancaster, Dave Bauscher, Jing, etc.
And the better performance goes to....
Quote:If you want to continue to promote your Islamic agenda here, it is up to you.
What agenda? You gave a quote, I threw a fit. Antecedent, Consequent.
Quote:This forum does not belong to me. All I can do is to give my opinions that members here should concentrate on Peshitta instead of wasting time on Islamic debates which could be held elsewhere (i.e. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/">http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/</a><!-- m --> ).
Fortunately, for had it been yours, you would have expelled me quicker like a papal authority would.
Again, you gave a quote, I threw a fit. If you do not mention Islam in a 'Christian forum,' then a Muslim has no need to be here to defend himself.
Antecedent, Consequent.
Quote:Others could disagree with my opinions. One thing for sure is I will not beat them up if I meet them face to face or get upset or dislike them if they disagree with my opinions.
You're a hypocrite. You can strongly imply (without ever clearing stating) that my religion is full of hatred, ignorance, and bigotry, but I cannot refute you? When I give an explanation to
your post, you want to tell me to take it outside to another forum?
Hell no (pun intended)
You don't want a Islamic-Christian dialogue. You want a monologue. You want every member in this forum to gnash their teeth in agreement.
Quote:Muslim-Christian relationship are generally getting bad lately after 9-11. There is no need to make it worse by fighting in the forums or chat rooms. That is my point when drmlanc posted a joke about Islam in this forum. You are upset with me since then.
You sided with him against me when I, as I noteably do, defended my faith. So yes, you're right.
Quote:If you have a share in this forum then go ahead and ban me. Or if there is a Muslim among the moderators of this forum or this forum partially belong to any Muslim out there, then let me know as I will surely no longer take part in this forum. Is there any? Just let me know. I find it is unjustified that theological discussions here based on the Bible is not welcome but propagating Islamic agenda is welcome.
Should Paul Younan or any unknown owner(s) of this forum find that my presence here is troublesome or burdensome and my posts here are not contributing to this forum, then just let me know as I don't like to waste my time, especially at places where I am not welcome.
My faith in Peshitta does not depend on this web site because I have been studying it before I discovered this site. Even if I am banned here I will still believe in Peshitta and might set up my own web site if I am free
.
Dan: Please, forum, come to my aid. Although Kevin has not implied the notion of banning, I fear he'll sway Paul to do so. Please rise up against the Islamic beast in the name of all that's good and proper.
Quote:Peshitta is a Bible. Why should I go elsewhere if I wanted to turn this site into a "Bible club"? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> Hmm... it is strange that it is okay to turn this site into Quranic club or Islamic debate club but not "Bible club." Where shall I go? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> Should I set up my own Peshitta site? I could easily make it rank at number one in major search engines like Google.
Once more, I stood my ground. I'm not asking for members of the forum to hold Quranic memorization sessions, am I?
Quote:I guess I better stop posting in this forum because I am a "newcomer" here who is not as highly educated as others here. Furthermore, Paul Younan doesn't want me to turn this forum into "Bible club." I should go elsewhere where Peshitta is considered a Bible. Let me see what a veteran of this forum who is an "educated person who has written a term paper for a professor" could do to advance Aramaic primacy.
It just dawned on me how dramatic you are.