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Son of Thunder,

You misinterpreted me.

To be honest, I care less about the political situation in Israel. I only wanted to show Paul how one Rabbi felt about Arabs. My point was to show how Jews and Arabs coexisted in relative peace for centuries without war.

AGR:

I did not misunderstand you Akhi Bar Khela. Your general points were well taken. The PROBLEM was the way you arrived there. Let's see that quote again:

Today???s wicked Zionists are just like their predecessors, who were responsible for causing terrible suffering in Palestine with their wars with the Arabs, may G-d have mercy.

COMMENT: I am a Zionist, therefore you are calling me wicked. Furthermore, you are calling my ancestors wicked. You don't even attempt to say what you would feel are "Zionist extremists" (where I would still have issue, but it would be less. Instead it's just Zionists. All Zionists--meaning almost all Jews that live in Israel. And you can't understand the problem? I believe that Israel has a right to exist as the eternal home of the Hebrew people, within secure and ANCIENT borders, established by the Torah itself, and this brings me to your next point:

At that time in 1929, the Zionists had a slogan arguing that the Western Wall in Jerusalem was a Jewish ???national symbol.??? Of course, the Arabs disagreed with this idea, considering that they had control of the location for over 1,100 years. However, the Zionist mobs were yelling that ???The Wall is ours!??? It???s hard to understand why they felt that way considering they have no connection to the Jewish holy places whatsoever.

COMMENT:

Jews have NO RIGHT to Jewish holy places? Really, did I read that right? The last part of Herod's Temple, built by Jews, for Jews, do not belong to Jews? But Palestinians there in 1929 do have all the rights to it? I see. Again, Torah begs to differ. It does not matter how long the Arabs had control--the Jews were given ETERNAL CONTROL, if you take the Bible seriously that is. If the Arabs want peace, let them live with us, but they cannot and will not replace us. Well let's go on then:

An argument erupted in the Jewish newspapers about establishing a permanent prayer area for Jews at the Wall. This provoked the Arabs, and the rabbi of Jerusalem at the time, Rabbi Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld begged them to stop and to be appreciative to the Arabs for allowing Jews to pray at the Wall for so many centuries undisturbed. However, the Zionists wanted a permanent setup under their control.

AGR:

And who attacked Israel the moment it was re-established, the rabbis? I think not. We were exiled since 70 CE, and you cannot fathom that after all that time we would want to be in control of our own holy places built by our ancestors? What if we wanted to go to Mecca and take over your mosques just because we lived in Saudi Arabia for a long time, but not as long as your people did? How would you feel?

To your other point, it may be that some rabbis were trepidatious about full transfer of control too quickly. I can respect that to a degree. But you seem to think that only a few Jews wanted their rights restored to their own sanctuaries, and this is not true.


It was in Muslim Spain that the Rambam composed "Guide for the Perplexed"

AGR:

Not contested. I never said there were never periods of peacful co-existence. I had a problem with the fact that all Zionists are wicked in your view. Is this clear yet?

My point is that Muslims, who actually adhere by the Qu'ran and the lifestyle of the Prophet, do not go around killing Jews and Christians. I cannot make my point clearer.

AGR:

Let me see if I can find some verses that say otherwise. I had them some time back. I seem to recall one that went "If you see a Jew, kill him." As for his "lifestyle", your prophet was at war frequently and killed many Jews and Christians with his own sword. And I know what Jihad is, okay?

Secondly, I have not forgotten about the kindness you've shown me throughout the years.[/quote]

AGR:

Glad to know that Akhi (notice I still call you Akhi). However, if you respect me, consider my feelings about your DEFINITIONS. To deny my people the right to exist in their native land (I do not deny Palestinians the right to be in Israel) that is RACISM--even Martin Lut her King Jr. said that, and I will find the quote if I have to during Black History Month no less. And, given your wonderful heritage, I would think you could relate to a small tribal group forced from their land, hated and massacred by the world and even denied when they return to their land by a greater power.

A Zionist is no more wicked than anyone else who wants to defend their home.

Understand now?
Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhi bar-Khela,

It wasn't easy fighting alongside with Muslims against the invading "Christian" army. But we did.

When and where did this happen?
oozeaddai Wrote:When and where did this happen?

Read the full account here http://aina.org/martyr.htm
Andrew,

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/">http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/</a><!-- m -->

I suggest you paste your comments onto the guestbook. But you did make your point clear.

Quote:AGR:

Let me see if I can find some verses that say otherwise. I had them some time back. I seem to recall one that went "If you see a Jew, kill him." As for his "lifestyle", your prophet was at war frequently and killed many Jews and Christians with his own sword. And I know what Jihad is, okay?

Purchase Karen Armstrong's Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet

AGR:

Quote: And, given your wonderful heritage, I would think you could relate to a small tribal group forced from their land, hated and massacred by the world and even denied when they return to their land by a greater power.

A Zionist is no more wicked than anyone else who wants to defend their home.

Heritage? What heritage? What has the reminants of my 'wonderful heritage' contributed to the world? What other race preys on itself?

Never ever put me and them in the same catagory.
Quote:Read the full account here http://aina.org/martyr.htm

Timeline

622

Twenty Nestorian bishops attempt assasination of Caliph Omar

633

Aliens descend on Edessa

634

A mob of Assyrian Christians rape sixteen Arab girls in St. Mary's Church

Source:Hitti PK. History of the Arabs; London: Macmillan and Co., Ltd., 1937

Do you believe me?
Are you talking to me Akhi Bar Khela, do I believe you that Aramaic Christians did such and such? I don't know. I've never investigated such. But I have investigated what Tamerlane did. I have investigated what other caliphs did in trying to wipe out the COE from the earth, so guess what? A few of them tried to fight back, some during Mohammed's lifetime? I think the Muslims more than compensated in the intervening centuries for what happened to them in the 600's, assuming what you say is true. I don't like to see any innocent blood shed. But neither does that obscure the other facts I have mentioned.

And I honestly pity you that you are so filled with self-loathing as to diss your own people. It is wrong to make sweeping generalizations of any group. These two continents, North and South America, were named for a black man. The first martyr in the cause that led to the Revolutionary War was also black. How is it I know these things and you either do not, or discount them? It is your people that hold the Ark of the Covenant in Ethiopia, not mine. It is your people who possess the oldest form of continuous Judasim in the world, not mine.

Now let us deal with another question, do I trust you in general? Do I feel that you honestly try to seek truth and learn facts even if I disagree with your conclusions? The answer to that is an unqualified and resounding YES, I do. But I also say to you the same words that the Sultan of Baghdad said to Hooligoo, the Mongol general, even though it turned out badly for the Sultan: "Oh young man, who has scarcely embarked on your career." You have no clue about the complexities of the Middle East Akhi, and the people who do, who are probably advising you, are lying.

But all this is still beside the main issue. I don't give a rip if the occasional rabbi or two is waiting on spiritual Israel. I don't need their websites, I don't need their propaganda or their myopia. I disagree with them on Y'shua as it is, I have no compunction whatsoever also disgreeing with anyone who is wrong on Israel, rabbi, Gentile or young African American men. Am I clear Akhi? I go by the Torah that gave Israel to my people. Period. End of story.

The main issue then is that almost ALL JEWS in Israel, their ancestors, their children almost ALL JEWS in Europe, in America, wherever, they are Zionists. You have called all Zionists wicked. You have not even bothered to try to distinguish between Zionists who want to negotiate and Zionists who pick up guns. We are therefore all the same to you. All wicked. And none of us have any right to our own holy sites built by our own people multiple centuries before the Arabs realized that worshiipping three goddess idols in the Kaba stone might not be such a good idea. Even Mohammed says that, that he had to break those idols down.

I want you to STOP saying these lies. I want you to STOP saying that anyone who thinks Israel has a right to exist is evil regardless as to how they want to reach their goals, even if totally peacefully. Is that simple enough for you?
Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:The main issue then is that almost ALL JEWS in Israel, their ancestors, their children almost ALL JEWS in Europe, in America, wherever, they are Zionists. You have called all Zionists wicked. You have not even bothered to try to distinguish between Zionists who want to negotiate and Zionists who pick up guns.

I'll have to say that I was not aware that therte were Zionists who only wish to negotiate. Who are these people and exactly what do they propose?

Thanks
Akhi Judge,

You never heard of the peace movement in Israel? But no people on this earth, save perhaps Gandhi's India, have ever 100% eliminated retaliation as an option against those who seek to destroy them. Nevertheless, there are many in Israel and elsewhere who want a two state solution with the Palestinian people (I'm not one of these, but neither do I want an endless cycle of violence either). And I did not say "only negotiate" but "want to negotiate". I have friends who believe that Israel should not build that wall so as not to inflame the situation further (I again disagree) but those people are STILL ZIONISTS.

Again, a Zionist is someone who believes in Israel's right to exist within peace and secure borders. Just like anyone else, no more and no less.

And again, my point against Bar Khela is not that I agree with everyrone who calls themselves a Zionist and defend every little thing Sharon does. My point is that NO ONE should say "all ANYTHING" are wicked.

What if I did that? What if I said "all Christians are wicked" or "all Democrats are wicked" simply because I had a political or a religious difference? I have no doubt that such statements would earn wrath against myself, and rightfully so.

If you have never heard of the idea of people who want to exist as Jews in Israel but not kill every Palestinian around them, then that only strengthens my point about the lies and anti-Semitism that is festering in the world. You don't see those people on the news much, and so distortion is inevitable. But they are all over the place if read Ha'Aretz.

My personal view is that Palestinians should participate in the Israeli government, in the Parliament, in the Knesset, as is their right as Israeli citizens. If there are excesses or violations of their civil rights, to property, etc., then they can use their formidible numbers to legislate for change legitimately like the rest of the world does. But again, repeated requests for them to do this have been refused because they don't want to be a partner in Israel. Instead, they want Israel for themselves. If not, they should have accepted the Barak deal in 1999.

And finally, no one seems to remember that we are told in Torah that YHWH blesses those who bless Israel and curses those who curse her. YHWH would sooner forget his right arm than forget Israel.
Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:If you have never heard of the idea of people who want to exist as Jews in Israel but not kill every Palestinian around them, then that only strengthens my point about the lies and anti-Semitism that is festering in the world.


Well I do agree there is a lot of resentment towards Israel around the planet and some is quite justified IMHO.

I suupose that if one has the belief that God has given this piece of land to "jews" (and one can of course even convert ) then at some point this impies violence, even if it is only to defend this right.

I for example have come to the conclusion that modern jews have no special relationship with God and no special rights.

From my pespective this does not mean that all zionists are evil but it does mean that all ziominist are misguided if they beleive they have a divine right.

I hope you can understand that this is a view I have come to whilst trying to understand as best I can.

Anyway , hope you understand this is just my view.

I am not anti-semitic or anti anyone. I I should treat all emn equally without showing favour.
Quote:Are you talking to me Akhi Bar Khela, do I believe you that Aramaic Christians did such and such?


I was talking to Dan Gan.

Quote:I have investigated what other caliphs did in trying to wipe out the COE from the earth, so guess what?


Name three Caliphs who damaged the COE. Cite your sources in MLA style.

Quote:And I honestly pity you that you are so filled with self-loathing as to diss your own people.

One day, the blood hound was sent to capture the yellow dog from the forest. Cornering the yellow dog by a tree, he exclaimed "Why are you doing this? We are brothers!" And the blood hound replied "Ties of brotherhood are binded by common interest only."

I do not care if a man comes from the same ancestral tribe as me.

Quote:Now let us deal with another question, do I trust you in general? Do I feel that you honestly try to seek truth and learn facts even if I disagree with your conclusions? The answer to that is an unqualified and resounding YES, I do. But I also say to you the same words that the Sultan of Baghdad said to Hooligoo, the Mongol general, even though it turned out badly for the Sultan: "Oh young man, who has scarcely embarked on your career." You have no clue about the complexities of the Middle East Akhi, and the people who do, who are probably advising you, are lying.

Abraham, Ishmael and Issac were neither Jews or Christians, Andrew. They were ones who submitted themselves entirely to the will of God. In Arabic, such beings are called 'Muslim.' Which way for mankind is better than Abraham's, who is known is 'God's friend?' His way is known as "Islam," which was reinforced to the sons of Kedar by the Prophet.

To say that Paradise is restricted to Jews and Christians is egoism. To say that no true Prophet can arise outside of 'the sacred borders' of Israel is egosim. Your nation was only charged to bear light for all nations, which was the original Torah (no longer in your possession), not to claim a divine right to His Kingdom.

The Torah has been edited, Andrew (see Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Freeman),
You still miss the point Akhi Bar Khela

First of all, the word goes forth from Zion, but I never said it stayed there. There is is one Torah for Jew and for foreigner, so I never said the Torah or the BIble was just for Jews and Christians.And if these are your loving Koranic principles in calling all Zionists evil, then you have either shamed the true Koran or proved it false.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were Semites, hebrews and arameans. And what do I care what Arabic called them 2500 years later? The patriarchs never spoke a word of Arabic, and contrary to your traditon they never set foot in Arabia either. While you are at it, why not explain to me the Bulgarian word for Israel, as if that matters?

As for documenting Islamic cruelty to Jews and Christians, why not read about Tamerlane, and if that is not enough, I'm sure we can give you more. Again, I never said that there were not times of tolerance and cooperation between Jews and Muslims. I have more respect for Arab culture than you can even comprehend. I know that they invented optics, algebra, that they translated Greek and Latin classics into Arabic and saved them from destruction. I appreciate the way the Moors treated my people in Spain and remember what the Catholics did the moment they took over in 1492. I appreciate the relative prosperity my people had under the Turks. You see, I am not hateful to Islam per se.

I only said that you should not have called all Zionists wicked. That was my only point. I never said all Muslims were evil but you said all Zionists were. Now let us take the rest of your junk and expose it:

***
To say that Paradise is restricted to Jews and Christians is egoism. To say that no true Prophet can arise outside of 'the sacred borders' of Israel is egosim. Your nation was only charged to bear light for all nations, which was the original Torah (no longer in your possession), not to claim a divine right to His Kingdom.

***
When exactly did I say that? Why don't YOU show me, in MLA style, that quote of mine. You have allowed your prejudice to ASSUME you know what I beleive and put words in my mouth that I never said. I believe in MANY prophets outside of Israel. Here's a few of them:

Luke was from Troas, in Asia Minor (born in Syria). Job was not from Israel but from Uz. Moses was born in Goshen and raised in Egypt and took an African wife. As for Abraham, he was from Ur. What do these people have in common? THEY WERE ALL FROM OUTSIDE OF ISRAEL. I have a book you should read. It's called the Bible.

I just don't believe in YOUR PROPHET, any more than I believe the Messiah was Meir Kahane, who was from Israel or Rabbi Schneerson. And spare me the whole "Torah is edited therefore you should believe in the Koran" stuff. I believe what we have is more than enough, and the rest comes from faith, something you obviously do not understand. Furthemore, Y'shua said that when you hear of a prophet out in the desertn urgin you to follow after him TO IGNORE HIM, or did you miss that one too? I can stand on the Peshitta NT and understand my OT just fine from it alone. I have the greatest Rabbi who ever lived, the Son of YHWH Himself, to teach me, opening me to the Scriptures under the Ruach Ha Kodesh.

So go ahead. Impugn the faith of all Jews and Christians.

And my nation is STILL CHARGED with being a light to all nations even as a Jew named Paul witnessed to those same nations. Messiah was a Jew and he is the light of the world. As long as Y'shua is believed in, Israel is still the source of that light. Always was. Always will be. Don't believe me? Read Romans 11. My people are entrusted with the eternal words of YHWH. We did not lose them.

Now I will tell you what I believe. All people, everywhere, regardless of race, creed, national origin or any other factor, have ONE REDEEMER and ONE MESSIAH. ONE REVELATION FOR ALL MEN, AND LET ME SAY THIS CLEARLY, IT IS NOT THE KORAN. One Torah (and NT) for Jew, Gentile, foreigner, Arab, black, white, green, red. One Path to Life through Maran Eshoa Meshikha, the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF ALAHA, born of a virgin, worker of miracles and risen from the dead on the third day.

So I don't care what you are, where you are from, your culture, your goals, your tastes, your likes and dislikes, all are null and irrelevant. Y'shua is the only way, the only truth, and the only life. Without him all is darkness. Is that clear enough? If it isn't, consider prayerfully that anyone who adds to the Book of Testimony is under a curse (Revelation 22:19). But I have NOT judged you. I do not know how much grace YHWH will show to you and do not assume to know that outcome. But neither will I back away from the true faith. It is the Scripture that fights for me. My only job is to tell you what it says.

I have been firm with you because I have seen so much better from you than this corruption, but I have also acted in your best interest, as a brother, because my Torah commands that I rebuke my brethren strongly when they do what you have done.

You have poorly represented your faith Bar Khela.
judge Wrote:
Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:If you have never heard of the idea of people who want to exist as Jews in Israel but not kill every Palestinian around them, then that only strengthens my point about the lies and anti-Semitism that is festering in the world.


Well I do agree there is a lot of resentment towards Israel around the planet and some is quite justified IMHO.


AGR:

I see. I never said Israel was perfect. I only said it had a right to peacefully exist within secure borders. No government on earth is perfect. But the fact is that Israel kept all the provisions of the Oslo Accord to at least some degree whereas the Palestinians kept none. WHy Michael do not feel for the children blown up by suicide bombers on schoolbuses as much as you do for Palestinians? It sounds to me that you simply have not taken the time to read up on this matter.

I suupose that if one has the belief that God has given this piece of land to "jews" (and one can of course even convert ) then at some point this impies violence, even if it is only to defend this right.

I for example have come to the conclusion that modern jews have no special relationship with God and no special rights.

AGR:

Not special rights Michael. The SAME rights that any other people have to their country. My people have 3000 years of archaeology backing up their rights to live in their country. Many people today live in countries with a far less strong claim. For example, let's take Australia. Your people displaced the Aboriginal people who had been there for thousands of years. You started off as a penal colony with NO TIES to the land. NO history in the area and NO archaeology to press your "rights" to live there. The only qualifications you had were superior weapons. And yes, the same could be said of the United States and the shameful way it dealt witht he Lakota, the Cheyenne and hundreds of other native nations too numerous to mention.

My point is not to bash Australia or indeed the US. My point is that both countries are populated and ruled by people who don't have 1/100th of the legitamacy to that land as my people do for Israel. If you can allow it for yourselves, then why not for the Jews?

See, that's what happens when people, even unintentionally and unconsciously, get prejudiced against a group of others that they do not understand. They start talking SPECIAL RIGHTS when what is needed are EQUAL RIGHTS for that group.

And EQUAL RIGHTS for Israel does not mean suppressing the Palestinian people either. It simply means that Jews have a right to live in a Jewish state that, like the rest of the nations of the world, has multi racial populations in their midst that participate in the society at large.

From my pespective this does not mean that all zionists are evil but it does mean that all ziominist are misguided if they beleive they have a divine right.

AGR:

Do you believe the Bible then? I mean, it's one thing for Bar Khela, as a Muslim, to allege tampering of Torah. It's quite another for a Christian to do so, because our Savior quoted from that Torah and the Apostle Paul called the Torah "holy, just and good" (Romans 7:12) and worth "establishing/standing upon" (Romans 3:31). Romans 11 said that YHWH's promises to the Jews were "IRREVOCABLE".

What were those promises then Akhi, if not the land from Dan to Beersheba? Search the Scriptures and tell me how else to read them IN CONTEXT AND TOGETHER. These are just a few I could give:

Genesis 17
1 When Abram was 99 years old, the Lord appeared to him, saying, "I am God Almighty. Live in My presence and be devout. 2 I will establish My covenant between Me and you, and I will multiply you greatly."

3 Then Abram fell to the ground, and God spoke with him:

4 "As for Me, My covenant is with you, and you will become the father of many nations. 5 Your name will no longer be Abram, but your name will be Abraham, for I will make you the father of many nations. 6 I will make you extremely fruitful and will make nations and kings come from you.

7 I will keep My covenant between Me and you, and your offspring after you throughout their generations, as an everlasting covenant to be your God and the [God] of your offspring after you. 8 And to you and your offspring after you I will give the land where you are residing-all the land of Canaan-as an eternal possession, and I will be their God."


Psalms 137:1-6
1 By the rivers of Babylon-
there we sat down and wept
when we remembered Zion. 2 There we hung up our lyres
on the poplar trees, 3 for our captors there asked us for songs,
and our tormentors, for rejoicing:
";Sing us one of the songs of Zion."; 4 How can we sing the Lord's song
on foreign soil? 5 If I forget you, Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget [its skill]. 6 May my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not exalt Jerusalem as my greatest joy!

Isaiah 49:13-17
13 Shout for joy, you heavens!
Earth, rejoice!
Mountains break into joyful shouts!
For the Lord has comforted His people,
and will have compassion on His afflicted ones. 14 Zion says, "The Lord has abandoned me;
The Lord has forgotten me!" 15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child,
or lack compassion for the child of her womb?
Even if these forget,
yet I will not forget you. 16 Look, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands;
your walls are continually before Me. 17 Your builders hurry;
those who destroy and devastate you will leave you.

I hope you can understand that this is a view I have come to whilst trying to understand as best I can.

Anyway , hope you understand this is just my view.

I am not anti-semitic or anti anyone. I I should treat all emn equally without showing favour.

AGR:

I'm not mad at you Michael. I do think though, in all respect and peace, that you are simply not informed. If you would truly wish to understand as best you can, I am more than happy to show you the verses that call the land of Israel the eternal home of Isaac's descendants through his father Abraham, and the eternal city of the Judean David, and of Messiah, also from Judah. Do you need these verses because I will bring them to bear.

And if you want to treat all men equally, then don't deny my people the same rights everyone else has to live in peace in their own country. I pray you understand this in the spirit I intend, which is one of peace and that you test the Scriptures for yourself.

One more thing for the record: I really wish you guys would understand what "chosen people" really means. It has NOTHING to do with my ethnicity. It has EVERYTHING to do with hearing the voice of YHWH and obeying His Torah. That is the core teaching of the NT as well, because "Abraham believed Elohim and it was counted to him as righteousness" and "Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my mother and my sister and my brother." THOSE are the chosen people. If an Israeli is wicked, he is not chosen (Jeremiah 9). If a Gentile is righteous, then he is chosen ( the apostle Paul). But if YHWH did not spare the natural branches, he won't spare you either (also Romans 11).

Furthermore, the covenant is with Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-34) and those who are counted as such because they joined to the commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2). One Torah for Jew and for foreigner, and that includes the NT. There is no covenant with Babylon, with Philistia, or with Egypt. Only with Israel and those who believe that YHWH spoke to Moses, and the prophets and Y'shua, and gave us instructions to live by. That means everyone, not just my folk. I hope that is clear.
Shlama Akhi Andrew,

Before I begin, I want to say that I am more than happy to see how eager you are to actually debate with me. However, let's stay sober-minded. Most of all, let's stay open minded towards one another. This is not a war, as I was once convinced. This is a debate between you and I. Can we keep it that way?

Quote:First of all, the word goes forth from Zion, but I never said it stayed there. There is is one Torah for Jew and for foreigner, so I never said the Torah or the BIble was just for Jews and Christians.And if these are your loving Koranic principles in calling all Zionists evil, then you have either shamed the true Koran or proved it false.

I did not say all Zionists are evil. I simply pasted an excerpt of an interview with a Rabbi who is against Zionists. My purpose for quoting him was to emphasize the peaceful coexistence of Jews and Arabs for over 1,100 years.

Again, I do not care about Zionists, the modern state of Israel, or its political situation.

Quote: and contrary to your traditon they never set foot in Arabia either.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html">http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html</a><!-- m -->

Quote:As for documenting Islamic cruelty to Jews and Christians, why not read about Tamerlane, and if that is not enough, I'm sure we can give you more.


We've talked about the Mongal plenty of times over. But he emerged CENTURIES AFTER THE PROPHET FROM A LAND WITH A NOTABLY DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY. Like I ask, give me at least three examples of caliphs who were notably cruel to Christians and Jews (nearest to the period of the Prophet). If you cannot, then apologize. After all, the burden of proof is on you.

Quote:Furthemore, Y'shua said that when you hear of a prophet out in the desertn urgin you to follow after him TO IGNORE HIM, or did you miss that one too?


The Jews follow after Moses. Christians follow after Jesus. What are you talking about?

Quote:I can stand on the Peshitta NT and understand my OT just fine from it alone. I have the greatest Rabbi who ever lived, the Son of YHWH Himself, to teach me, opening me to the Scriptures under the Ruach Ha Kodesh.

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.

Surah 112

Do you agree? Moses would.

Quote:And my nation is STILL CHARGED with being a light to all nations even as a Jew named Paul witnessed to those same nations. Messiah was a Jew and he is the light of the world. As long as Y'shua is believed in, Israel is still the source of that light. Always was. Always will be. Don't believe me? Read Romans 11. My people are entrusted with the eternal words of YHWH. We did not lose them.

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matthew 21:43)

Jesus says differently than Paul.

Quote:Now I will tell you what I believe. All people, everywhere, regardless of race, creed, national origin or any other factor, have ONE REDEEMER and ONE MESSIAH. ONE REVELATION FOR ALL MEN, AND LET ME SAY THIS CLEARLY, IT IS NOT THE KORAN. One Torah (and NT) for Jew, Gentile, foreigner, Arab, black, white, green, red. One Path to Life through Maran Eshoa Meshikha, the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF ALAHA, born of a virgin, worker of miracles and risen from the dead on the third day.

If being born of a virgin qualifies Eeshoa to be the 'son of God,' then surely Adam has more right than he.

Quote:So I don't care what you are, where you are from, your culture, your goals, your tastes, your likes and dislikes, all are null and irrelevant. Y'shua is the only way, the only truth, and the only life.

According to the author(s) of John

Quote:You have poorly represented your faith Bar Khela.

I'm just getting warm
Forum,

I'm at the point of my life where every nuclei in my body is racing forth to tell me that it's time to become.

Therefore, I resign as a member of the forum. Farewell.
Abraham cannot be a "Muslim" because Abraham was a Hebrew/Aramean. Abraham would never say "Allah hu akhbar" which means "Allah is a mouse" in Hebrew and Aramaic. "Akhbar" in Hebrew means "Mouse" and in Aramaic it is "Aqubra", same root word with Hebrew.

Quran also says that Allah is a ZIONIST who gives the land to Israel until the next life to come. It doesn't say "Arabs" or "Palestinians" here > QURAN 17:104 And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

By the way, there is no point of proclaiming that "Allah is a mouse and Muhammad is rasul Allah" because Quran says that Jews and Christians will be rewarded. All you have to do is be good like those Jews and Christians who are helping Tsunami victims in Indonesia > QURAN 2:62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
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