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Shlama Akha,

I just sent two new articles to Dan Gan, which he has posted on ultimasurf.com.
One is a detailed, verse by verse comparison of 84 verses between The Peshitta, three Greek versions and The Latin Vulgate (AD 405) in the book of Acts.

The results show the Peshitta has unique readings in more than half of the verses and cannot be explained as a translation of any Greek text in those places.

It also varies in its occasional agreement with one Greek text, then another, then Latin Vulgate (a Western text translated from a western Greek text by Jerome).

The other article is a similar study in The Gospel of Mark - all of chapt. 4 and 21 verses in chapt. 5.
The results are very similar to those in Acts.
53% of the Peshitta readings are unique and are independent of all Greek texts.

The total number of verses for both studies is 146;the cumulative percentage of unique Peshitta readings is 54%.

I have made textual notes and comments under a considerable number of the verses,
highlighting the unique textual readings in The Peshitta and Murdock's translation. There are translations listed for each text type as well, parallel to The Peshitta.

There is a summary at the end of each article, as well as other NT analysis of the name of "Yeshua"&"Jesus" in Aramaic & Greek and the wide discrepancies in total numbers (many more in Aramaic), as well as the number of times the name "Elaha" and the Greek "Theos" occur in The NT.

Everthing can be found at the link below.

Bon appetit !

Dave
Dave,

Out of curiosity, what would be your translation of Acts 1:5 from the peshitta into english?
gbausc Wrote:Shlama Akha,

I just sent two new articles to Dan Gan, which he has posted on ultimasurf.com.
One is a detailed, verse by verse comparison of 84 verses between The Peshitta, three Greek versions and The Latin Vulgate (AD 405) in the book of Acts.

I'm not sure which article that is. I see one that talks about both Luke and acts. Is that it? If not can you post a link?
Shlama Akhi Dave,

"For John baptized in water; and you will be baptized in the
Spirit of holiness after not many days
.
"


Burktha (Blessings)

Dave
Shlama Akhi Keith,

"Jesus in Acts" is the 17th article down the list.

Burkhtha,


Dave
Quote:"For John baptized in water; and you will be baptized in the
Spirit of holiness after not many days."

Nice, but that is incorrect Dave. Here is what Paul translated it as:

"And ye shall be baptized by The Spirit of Holiness after not many days."

That is even worse.

The correct wording of this is "with The Holy Spirit"

It is with since it is a gift given to the born-again Christian. This is a separate action all together from the born-again experience. Why with? Because we receive Him inside with the spiritual language following, as mentioned in Acts.

If this is not one of those words that can be interpreted several different ways, and the meaning can only be in, then this text is wrong, but I would suppose that this word would have several meanings such as in, with, by since Paul translated it different from you.

Why would I be particular about it? Because it is a doctrinal issue that can cause strife within His church, or has already.
Shlama Dave,

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0xwrb[/font] "b Rocha " parallels [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0ymb[/font] "b mia" ("in water") The "b" - letter "bet" is a preposition whose basic meaning is "in". It can also mean "with" or "by", but they are not as literal a sense as "in".
All the Greek texts have the Greek preposition "en" ("in","with","by"). The primary meaning is "in" whether we are reading in Aramaic or Greek.

Strongs has 1722 en "en"

a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); TDNT-2:537,233; prep

AV-in 1902, by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on 62, through 39, misc 265; 2801

1) in, by, with etc.


But Dave, I don't understand your objection. Baptism in water is a symbol of baptism in the Spirit. Were you immersed "in" water or sprinkled "with" water when you were baptized ?
Similar explanation for the Beht in Hebrew, of which it would be a derivitive. I'm still working on syllables at the moment, Bah, Beh, Bee, Boh, Booh, etc.

My objection is the meaning transferred into english. I was baptised in water then baptised with The Holy Spirit, not many days hence. The use of the word with here in this particular area, has connotations of being joined together in english, of which it should, it's a gift forever placed inside the temple of the body of the born-again believer, that is a separate tangible experience.

I understand the literal sense indicated in the greek and syriac languages, but are we not translating into english? In that case, the visual impact of using in instead of with, just in this particular area, is incorrect.

Your not completely wrong translating it into that literal word, per say, but doctrinally, without using with to indicate a separate spiritual event, it would be misleading, or what I would consider, a half truth rather than the full truth.
Shlama Akhi Dave,

It is true that The Holy Spirit is in us; the bigger picture is that we are in Him, for He is far more than we can hold.He is infinite; we are finite.

The water is in the fish, but the larger perspective is that the fish is in the water.

Burkhtha,

Dave
Neat symbolism, but we are a part of grace and truth, the OT and it's veiled truth died out with John The Baptist. I'm not meaning to be abrupt with you Dave, I'm just killing the idea of those types of analogy since they lead to confusion most of the time, and people love to hang onto them for some reason during debates.

The initial experience of the rebirth is the cleansing by the fire of The Holy Spirit, but John pointed to something much greater, of which he wanted also yet it doesn't look like John was able to attain that gift since he died before Jesus, and the time/realm of The Holy Spirit had not occured yet.

The NT mentions in many places of the gift of The Holy Spirit as a separate and distinct step in the new Christian life, completely distinct from the initial rebirth, and the next step after it.

In lament, it seems that most translators are unaware of these things.
Shlama Akhi Dave,

You are discussing interpretation, not translation. Doctrine should not determine translation . Otherwise, Baptists would buy Bibles translated by Baptists and Pentecostals would translate their own Bible, etc., etc. Nobody would agree on anything, because everyone would have his own Bible ! I would translate my way, and you, your way.

That is sheer madness , Dave . God wrote one Bible, not 300. We must study the languages and believe the written word. You and I would know nothing about The Holy Spirit and Jesus without the Bible. You cannot dictate what it means or which reading is correct by praying. If it is written in Aramaic and Hebrew, then you will learn to read Aramaic and Hebrew ( I am glad you have begun to do that); Someone has to, otherwise, all the prayer in the world will tell you nothing. We would still be in The Dark Ages when only priests could read and interpret scripture.

I don't see a second blessing or baptism in the NT. Either one is a Christian, and has the Holy Spirit in him, or he is not a Christian and has not the Holy Spirit in him. What scripture have I missed ?

I can show you 12 verses ,in any translation you like, that teach this; Show me two or three that contradict these, and I will concede your point.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro 8:10 ?? And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Lu 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

1Co 3:16 ?? Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ga 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 4:4 ?? Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

What is greater than having God the Father, God the Son, and God The Holy Ghost dwelling within us and we in God ?

18 ?? I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father???s which sent me.
25 ?? These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

26 ?? But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
1 ?? These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
7 ?? Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

God has given me everything He has given you, Dave; He has loved us all with the love He gave His Son, as the word of Christ says. We should not parade any gift or doctrine but the infinite Love of our infinite LORD and His Spirit Who is Love for all people . 1 Cor. 13 makes that point plain. The Peshitta says" :
If I speak in all the languages of men and of the angels , and have not love, I should be like brass that resoundeth, or the cymbal that maketh a noise."

Burkhtha w'shlama,


Dave
Let's get past the drama here Dave. The Holy Spirit is there and willing to help any of God's children to attain greater things, but if you wish to campaign against The Holy Spirit, so be it, go ahead and fall into that pit, I won't stop you.

Let me touch on a few things here:

Quote:You and I would know nothing about The Holy Spirit and Jesus without the Bible. You cannot dictate what it means or which reading is correct by praying.

Oh really? Are you that bold only because the OT Prophets are not around to show you how wrong you are, or is it something else Dave? Is it because God chooses the unwise to do His will in such matters as these instead of a person with a degree in linguistics? What are you eluding to here, or better yet, what are you fishing for?

God is going to do what He wants to do in such matters and you and your friends have no say so in it. Sorry if that is harsh, but it is the truth. It is just the way it is Dave, He will choose who he wants because He knows the heart of a person, and that is all I'm going to say about it.

Quote:I don't see a second blessing or baptism in the NT. Either one is a Christian, and has the Holy Spirit in him, or he is not a Christian and has not the Holy Spirit in him. What scripture have I missed ?

It is quite evident Dave. Jesus is our perfect example in all things. He stated it, the things that He would do we would do and more.

Let's take a look at His baptism.

John was having the people repent before God prior to their water immersion, so that would be our first step in the Christians new life. Then he was immersing the people in water. Why? Because it was symbolic of the cleansing we would receive after Jesus's work was finished. His blood would provide the doorway into the new life from God, for all who would choose God. The medium for this would be The Holy Spirit, as John said: "Behold, I truly baptise thee in the days of repentance, but another comes mightier than I, the throng of whose sandal I am unworthy to unfasten. He shall baptise thee with the fire of The Holy Spirit."

Hence it is clear, John's water baptism was temporary, according to his own words. Does that mean that water baptism is annuled? No, anyone can be water baptised, and it is good to do so, but it is not a mandatory thing. You can receive The Holy Spirit after your repentance even if you have never been water baptised. Again, John's baptism was symbolic of what was to come.

Now,....When Jesus received The Holy Spirit after His water baptism, was that a singular event that no one else would experience or need to go through? No, because He fulfilled all righteousness for us. He is our perfect example. Jesus also told the first century Christians to wait in Jerusalem (home) for the promise from The Father prior to His departure. The greek has "to be waiting" in Jerusalem.

That promise was The Comforter, ie The Holy Spirit. Again, it is clear, the example is evident, and those first century Christians received The Holy Spirit in a wonderful measure.

Let's ask the question again, was that a singular event that no one else would experience or need to go through? Again no, because it has been duplicated many times over.

Ever heard of Azusa street?

That outpouring of The Spirit is still building new churches.

So Dave, to want a specific scripture that says that you must go through this sort of trial by fire that all of us born-again, Spirit-filled Christians have, I have none for you. But I will tell you the same thing that you told Chris a while back, just because you do not understand the scriptures in these matters is your own fault, not mine or anyone elses. To deny it, is to deny what happened to our Christian forefathers in Jerusalem, and to deny those events that have since happened afterwards by the hand of such people as Finney, Wigglesworth, Sumrall, Lake, etc, and the multitudes that came together in one accord at that church on Azusa street, all of which are clearly documented in history.
Quote:So Dave, to want a specific scripture that says that you must go through this sort of trial by fire that all of us born-again, Spirit-filled Christians have, I have none for you.

So be it.