Peshitta Forum

Full Version: Shusshhh
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Khati Shushan,

Physics and biology aside - what do you think about the evidence presented here so far on Aramaic Primacy? Do you think we've presented a compelling case that the Greek versions were translated from the Aramaic original your ancestors helped to preserve in the Peshitta?

We can talk religion, and how the Peshitta clarifies certain things, on a different post. But I'm more interested in your opinion on our evidence presented here.
Paul Younan Wrote:Khati Shushan,

Do you think we've presented a compelling case that the Greek versions were translated from the Aramaic original your ancestors helped to preserve in the Peshitta?

I think you've done an excellent job. OF course you got to understand I was already sold on some aspect Aramaic primacy, where I was with American bishop who had Assyrian lines and used Lamsa's Bible etc.


I think one problem is that people who beleive in the Greek text aren't really interested in researching or looking into things like document disagreement. I remember studying a debate with Judge with one guy on another board. he simply was not willing to consider, that Greek textual differences were do to much beyond scribal erros, and dialectal differences. He also found the lack of variation in Peshitta to be to good to be true.


I think another thing that influences is the fact Voobus etc. who have handled scores of the anceint manuscripts come up with different theories, that of course are different that Assyrian tradion. the fact that they handled and studied so much original source material and are experts in the field makes me want to listen to and consider what they have to say, even though in retrospect they may be ingnorant of some facts etc. that put things into perspective.



I think perhaps in the future, it may be an affective in the future to systematically document the differences in the Greek texts. And perhaps come up with a detailed theory and explanation of how and why they ended up the way they did.



I know some critics I have, have crtiized reconstructive textual attempts in lack of archeolgical evidence. Because it can seem flakey or too hypothetical. But I know I find it affective. Because I shows a mastery of the material, beyond what the other side can do. People in the past, on other forums have been very excited about the Aramaic heritage behind the New Testaments. I also noticed that critics may make a remarks but they don't stay around for a line, upon line debate. Which I interpret as a sign of weakness. They for the most part rely on argumentum ad populum arguments, and archelogy, etc. to carry the weight of their claims. Anyway I think the deconstructive work on the Greek texts, over time will build the case for Aramaic.


Unfortately this issue is tied into so many other ones (especially psychological ones, like peoples need for security, and for many things like the existence of an Asiatic Aramaic speaking and writingchurch is completely new and seems a little fantastic to be believable) and it hard to make a lot of headway (I think especially because there are so many experts in Greek whose entire livelihood, position of authority etc. is based upon the belief in that texts primacy and infallible nature).


I do know that there is a growing "post modern" church movement in America. And people are rethinking many, and many issues related to church (especially in Evangelical circles). Anyway in this movement, from what I seen first hand people are very interested and curious with the news of Aramaic scriptures, and aramaic heritage behind the New Testament. So while it may be tempting to try to out argue the Greek academics to convert their followers over, it however may be better to concentrate influencing some of the newer more open minded contemporary church goers of today.
hi paul,

let me do some more reading before i give you a thorough analysis.. and i will try to be objective... but I have always had the "feeling" that the peshitta in the language of Jesus must be of primacy and even that from what little i know of aramaic that it has levels of spiritual meaning that loosing in any translations... i had a dream once (But I don't believe in dreams prophecizing so to me it just tells me my inner hopes not anything fated) and in that dream I was on an archeological dig in "Assyria" and I found the original Aramaic writings written by Jesus on his teachings, and then I woke up.. bummer.. it was just getting good.. I also had a holy spirit encounter once early 20s where I felt the presence of jesus of pure peace love compassion and more than words can express... so I know there is something special there, either cause of some divine spirit in him or because my subconscious needed me to think that.. but to me either is equally valid for me to strive to learn more about what Jesus' message really was, unadulterated and uncorrupted by translations and people of power and politics and delusions and all the other things that have since tarnished any documents written by people... so I will read more here and elsewhere to learn more for I do believe this is the closest we have yet but I have to read more before i can say more than BELIEVE and say it analytically as I assume you are asking me here... give me a week or two for I have some things going on personally that are going to consume my time the next weeks, but I will giveyou my full analysis once I can do that intelligently and informed.. but I do admire what you are doing here and I agree with a lot of what I have read so far that you have written, even a heretic like me can tell a good man and sincere efforts and gleam the truth from religious documents, and I am always open to learning something new and changing my views if given evidence or inspiration <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

Shushhhh
Paul Younan Wrote:Khati Shushan,

Physics and biology aside - what do you think about the evidence presented here so far on Aramaic Primacy? Do you think we've presented a compelling case that the Greek versions were translated from the Aramaic original your ancestors helped to preserve in the Peshitta?

We can talk religion, and how the Peshitta clarifies certain things, on a different post. But I'm more interested in your opinion on our evidence presented here.

Hi Paul , hope you don't mind if I butt in. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

I think the evidence is way strong enough, but the key may be teaching younger minds. People who have invested time and money on greek primacy and studying NT greek are probably understandably reluctant to consider they might be on the wrong track.
Young minds who are not already committed to greek promacy have nothing to lose by considering the Aramaic might be primary.

I was in a large bookshop today and there of course was "The da vinci code" and probably ten (!!) books seeking to refute it.
If it can be demonstrated that the Persian Church was independent theologically politically, liturgically and geographically during the early centuries of Christianity then this is probably the cleanest arguyment against books like the da vinci code (which has been on the best seller list for months).
But people just are not aware. In fact most people are completely unaware there even is a peshitta.

Proabably IMHO the best thing on this site is this link.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/initial/peshitta.html">http://www.peshitta.org/initial/peshitta.html</a><!-- m -->

I direct people to it all the time.
If interest in Aramaic primacy ever really takes off I suspect you will be just too busy to do everything.
Perhaps it might be worth considering putting together a few more links like the one above dealing with key points, so people can be easily educate themselves. I think people are more open to being linked to a short article than wading through a discussion on a forum perhaps.
That is why I have been asking a few more questions lately. I am going at some time soon to put together something for another forum on the state of play WRT scholars opnions on the peshitta.
I commented on an article at infidels.org some time ago and contacted the author. He even made a change to the online article (only a slight one) but IIRC he even asked if I would like to put something together (as long a s i had some refernces), which I may do in the future.

Any way these are just my thoughts, wishing you and your family all the best.
Akhi Michael